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WRAS question

Discussion in 'Water Regulations' started by Riley, Jun 1, 2015.

Discuss WRAS question in the Water Regulations area at UKPlumbersForums.co.uk.

  1. Riley

    Riley Plumber GSR

    Hi

    I'm having a bit of a nightmare with quoting for a job.

    Customer keeps arguing the toss over a product that they want installing.

    They would like a douche installed in close proximity to the toilet ie there is a chance that the hose could end up in the pan. The product that they have purchased recommends an anti syphon valve to prevent backflow contamination. I was not sure about this and asked the question on here the other day and was kindly recommended to contact WRAS accordingly.

    I did this and received a very concise response re installing a separate water cistern with the necessary air gaps to ensure that contamination could not occur.

    I totally understand what I was sent and I have done my best to explain this to the customer however they cannot understand why it cannot be just installed as per the MIs. I can see both sides of the problem here but I am not keen to install in line with the MIs as this is a landlord property and don't want the Landlord to have any comeback or any subsequent WRAS follow up.

    Would i I be better off just binning this job?
     
  2. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    cant you use a double check valve ?????
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. plumben

    plumben Plumber

    If its a rented property why not just surgest to the landlord to just not install the douche
     
  4. Geyser

    Geyser Plumber GSR

    No you can't. I had same problem after getting well into the job wben customer turned up with one.
     
  5. Rckape

    Rckape Plumber GSR

    A double check valve is only suitable for category 3 fluids. This install required protection from category 5 fluids, realistically a break tank is the only option.

    I'm sure if you look in the MI's it will have a clause requiring compliance with local regulations. As far as I know water MI's do not super cede water regs unlike gas.

    For me it's a case of doing it to regs or not at all.

    Of course it's much easier not to install in the first place.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    just had a quick look on the internet and most say fit like this :D

    http://www.wet-water.co.uk/images/stories/Guides/basic-cold-water-connection.pdf

    and from wras them selves

    9. Bidets

    Generic specification is limited to over rim supply (not ascending spray) bidets only:

    BS EN 35 and BS 5505-3 – Pedestal bidets.
    BS EN 36 and BS 5505-3 – Wall hung bidets.
    See also BS EN 14528 Bidets. Functional requirements and test methods.

    Water supply to bidets is by separate taps or mixer tap (preferably thermostatic), with or without adjustable spray nozzles (described as ‘over rim’ supply). There may also be a diverter to supply a douche spray rising from the bottom of the bowl.

    Water Regulations or Byelaws usually have onerous requirements for the connection of bidets with rising douche or flexible handspray, e.g. a separate break tank. These measures will reduce water pressure, which may be inadequate for the bidet douche spray. Check the details with the manufacturer and/ or the water company.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2015
  7. Riley

    Riley Plumber GSR

    I did suggest that to lady at WRAS but she said it was insufficient for Cat 5 water
     
  8. Riley

    Riley Plumber GSR

    My thoughts exactly
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Riley

    Riley Plumber GSR

    Tenants want it for "religious" purposes
     
  10. snowhead

    snowhead Well-Known Member

  11. plumben

    plumben Plumber

    That doesn't justify installing one, and the extra expenses for the landlord, the next tenant will want it removing, they can stand in the bath/shower tray and use the shower if they need one that bad
     
  12. Riley

    Riley Plumber GSR

    Oh I know and don't get me wrong I totally agree. The landlord is happy as they're good tenants and are willing to contribute to the cost
     
  13. plumben

    plumben Plumber

    They wont be that happy when you add on x hundreds of pounds to install a break tank
     
  14. chris watkins

    chris watkins Plumber

    This is a common one that comes up all the time in London, you simple can't install them unless the water supply to them is protected by a class AA or AB air gap, either using a cistern or a pipe interrupter (& try doing that with a blended water supply).

    This is Category 5 water we are talking about here, if our water supplies are contaminated by this (e coli) you can kill not only the tenants but the whole street or more.
    I would remind installers on here that you would be liable along with the landlord should this happen (they would argue they were employing a competent person in the form of a plumber).

    If you do not possess your Water Regs Ticket I strongly urge you to get it !!

    With regards to the Manufactures Instruction I use to explain it like this - In this country we do not, as a rule, have Laws aimed at stopping the sale of products, it would just not be possible instead we legislate to prevent there use.

    Remember those mini motor bikes that were all the rage a few years back, not illegal to sell them just ride them down the street.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. plumben

    plumben Plumber

    Top points raised her, the only problem is you get DIY wannabes who can install plumbing but have never heard of water regs or think they apply to them, and this could be the house next door too you,
     
    • Like Like x 1
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