Worcester burner gasket failure 6 months after service

[worzel]

Hi,

The boiler in our recently rented house needed some unrelated work. Upon completion, the gas fitter noticed the gasket on the burner had failed such that we could actually see an orange glow and the electrics above had burn damage from intermittent flashes. Of course he stuck "IMMEDIATELY DANGEROUS" stickers on it, made sure we couldn't use it, and replaced all the affected parts the next day. The unrelated fault was quite fortuitous.

The gas fitter asked me if I had taken it apart because the likely cause of the gasket failure was failure to replace the gasket on reassembly. I hadn't touched it (and wouldn't attempt any sort of work on a boiler). The property management company is now telling me that the boiler was serviced in August last year and so the fault must have developed since then.

My understanding is that a service requires opening the burner, and opening the burner requires the gasket to be replaced on re-assembly. So my question is, is it conceivable that the gasket failed such that flames were actually escaping from the burner only six months after a proper service?

The boiler is a gas Worcester Greenstar system boiler approx 7 years old.

Thanks,
Mike.

 

[snowhead]

So my question is, is it conceivable that the gasket failed such that flames were actually escaping from the burner only six months after a proper service?

Mike.

Yes possible.
If the old gasket was reused and or not fully tightened.
It may be that the old gasket had been reused many times.

If a new gasket was correctly fitted, it shouldn't have failed.

 

[worzel]

Thanks snowhead.

So if I understand correctly, it is very unlikely that it would have failed like that if the gasket were replaced and fitted correctly when it was serviced six months ago.

I need to check, then. Is my understanding correct that a service requires opening the burner, and opening the burner requires the gasket to be replaced on re-assembly?

 

[Paulplumb]

The information you require should be in the installation and servicing manual of your boiler. Generally most modern Worcester Bosch boilers only require stripping and cleaning of the heat exchanger if they fail the fan pressure test.

 

[Destroyer2813]

As Paul said it may have never failed the fan pressure test in those 7 years has hasn't had a full stripdown service, but they do have a tendency to corrode over years quite a few guys hear change them after 4-5 years to prevent this occurring

 

[worzel]

Ok, thanks for the info. I've checked the manual and it confirms what you are saying.

Sorry for all the questions, but I guess my real point is: how much danger were we really in?

When discovered, the gas fitter took this very seriously. Had this not been discovered while doing other work, how likely would this fault have caused a fire between now and the next gas safety check?

As the only legal requirement is a gas safety check, would a gas safety check pick up this fault?

My first fear was that we were put in extreme danger due to bad maintenance. My fear now is that we were put in extreme danger due to design and procedure despite proper maintenance that went beyond the legal minimum requirement.

 

[Rickster123]

And where there's blame there's a claim! Jeeeeez

 

[REDSAW]

common fact on these boilers... the seal fails and is a known fault

 

[worzel]

I have no interest in making any sort of claim, APPlumbing.

It just seems odd to me that if this particular failure is as dangerous as the gas guy who was here seemed to think, that following the regular service instructions could easily result in it occurring.

Maybe it wasn't quite so dangerous as I was led to believe. Enlighten me!

 

[Rickster123]

I have no interest in making any sort of claim, APPlumbing.

It just seems odd to me that if this particular failure is as dangerous as the gas guy who was here seemed to think, that following the regular service instructions could easily result in it occurring.

Maybe it wasn't quite so dangerous as I was led to believe. Enlighten me!

it may very well have nothing to do with the service. A service isn't a guarantee that the boiler will remain safe for 12 months. There's no guarantee for that. You must forgive me but from your posts it seems you're looking to point the finger of blame. As Jesus once said, sometimes **** happens.

 

[lame plumber]

land lord safety check is an mot not a service for starters, be better to go buy your own home and take responsibility for your own life.

 

[AWheating]

some modernish boilers can melt themselves due to poor design or poor maintenance. A manufacturer will not admit a design fault, a engineer will say it was safe the day it was tested. Yon dont know who did what and when so it would be hard to prove if the gasket was ever touched tbh. For me if i had cleaned out and changed the gasket on a annual service i would have noted the fact on the service record/ gas certificate.

 

[worzel]

I must be coming across all wrong. I am not looking to point the finger. And by the way, I do own a home which I rent out, and I have the boiler covered by BG Homecare, and have it serviced and gas checked annually.

On the home I rent the property management company uses small local contractors and there is no service record in the back of the manual, so I cannot check what has been done.

I know there are no guarantees. All I want to ascertain is how dangerous the fault really was, and how likely it is to occur assuming the boiler had been properly serviced. Basically, I want to know if I should be concerned enough to insist the boiler is serviced by someone else in the future, or if I should just chalk the fault up to bad luck, and the detection up to good luck.

 

[Aquazone]

If the boiler is serviced and a CP12 issued then there should be a paper copy of what was done. All certificates differ in design but mine have a section to write in extra details.

A note should have been made here if the gasket was changed. WB do not require the gasket to be changed each service, so the service may have been completed as per MI and you would still have the issue 6 months on.

Also on the certificate should say whether it was serviced or not. A CP12 and a service are not the same thing, contrary to what estate agents and landlords think.

The issue itself is quite serious as eventually left unchecked could have melted the boiler innards and caused a fire hazard. I would just leave it be and let them service it each year.

 

[newcastle phill]

i had cleaned out and changed the gasket on a annual service i would have noted the fact on the service record/ gas certificate.

Same - cos theyd be getting billed extra for gasket.

I haven't bothered to look at the MI for this as busy, but many state if the FGA is fine dont strip burner.

 

[oil gasman]

some modernish boilers can melt themselves due to poor design or poor maintenance. A manufacturer will not admit a design fault, a engineer will say it was safe the day it was tested. Yon dont know who did what and when so it would be hard to prove if the gasket was ever touched tbh. For me if i had cleaned out and changed the gasket on a annual service i would have noted the fact on the service record/ gas certificate.

snap , I always wrote on the invoice any advisories as well, if I had told the customer for example ur pump is leaking and needs changing and they decide not to do it always note it on the invoice in order they couldn't say u didn't tell me

always covered myself and wrote everything extra on the invoice

keston boilers useto sometimes have melt downs ,

of course put anything down onto the cp12 as well that needed noting in advisories etc

 

[worzel]

Ok. Thanks for all your input.

I do have the gas safety cert. The only comment on there says "Defect identified: bonding, action taken: advise ll." I'm guessing that refers to the earth bonding of the pipes.

I am going to ask for the service record to see if the burner was stripped, and if so if the gasket was replaced. If the answer is yes and no, then I think that is cause for concern. Otherwise, I'll leave it there.

Thanks again,
Mike.

 

[oil gasman]

Ok. Thanks for all your input.

I do have the gas safety cert. The only comment on there says "Defect identified: bonding, action taken: advise ll." I'm guessing that refers to the earth bonding of the pipes.

I am going to ask for the service record to see if the burner was stripped, and if so if the gasket was replaced. If the answer is yes and no, then I think that is cause for concern. Otherwise, I'll leave it there.

Thanks again,
Mike.

when a boiler is serviced it doesn't always require for it to taken completely apart , ,a gas analiser is put onto boiler to ensure it is safe and with the parameters set by that particular manufacturer

some boiler manufacturers insist that from new or so many years of not to take the boiler apart , but each and every year on a service a gas analiser is put onto the boiler to ensure its safe operation

one is used every time the boiler is pulled into question , anything that's been taken apart
a service or a land Lord gas safty cert a cp12 , breakdown

as the burner gasket has been replaced and hope this isn't rude it worried u greatly

on an annual service u could advise the engineer that u are concerned with regards to the burner gasket, he would check things like this anyway on an annual service , but it would be peace of mind for u

the most important thing is it's been fixed for u so u don't have to worry , but can if u wish mention it on ur next annual service or gas saftey certificate

hope that helps abit

 

[goz666]

Hi,

The property management company is now telling me that the boiler was serviced in August last year and so the fault must have developed since then.

Mike, I think you need to speak to the property management company and ascertain whether the appliance was 'serviced' or simply part or whole of an annual Landlords Gas Safety Record (aka a CP12). There is a big difference, personally unless asked to do so, I do not service any appliance on a CP12, we are there to inspect the appliances SAFETY to be operated.

I suspect the 'service ' six months before was probably a CP12.

 

[LPC]

You should replace the seal if the burner is opened for cleaning. If not, there is a chance this situation could occur.

BUT

There is no mandatory requirement to open up the burner on servicing one of these boilers; that decision is based on a couple of technical tests carried out during the service.

So:

1) If the engineer did open the burner, and did not replace the seal afterwards, it is very likely he will say that he did not open the burner and there is absolutely no way of proving it one way or another.

2) If he did in fact, open the burner, there is also no way of proving if he replaced the seal. He will just say that he did.

So to be honest, you're better off not worrying about it and moving on.