Which central heating and water system in village with no gas ?

[mikeimp]

I am renovating a small 3 bedroom cottage. There are 2 average bedrooms and 1 small plus kitchen and bathroom with shower over bath.

There is no gas to the village and so I am thinking electric. I am selling the property when complete and so a cost effective solution that I can fit myself but not too expensive to run.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Have a chat with nabours , see what some of them are using, you will get no end of answers on here from ground source, to oil, If your thinking of LPG then the tank and supply to the house is free, what type of hot water, well depending on water supply anything from conventional tanks in roof & hot water cylinder, to combi or unvented cylinder , if you go for gas then option of gas cooker / fire / boiler, oil would be boiler with electric cooker/fire all electric heating could be costly to run, and what about power cuts, with gas you would still have cooker / fire, with electric will supply cope with load ? and so it go's on, depends on what you intend spending and what you hope to make on sale, + depending on what system you fit how quick will it sell ??

 

[mikeimp]

The cost of an oil tank is too much and a lot of work. I think LPG will put buyers off and so I am leaning towards electric. I have arranged a new water supply so that should be fine. So any suggestions for a good electric system would be helpful.

 

[JCSPLUMBING]

If you have good mains pressure then an unvented cylinder on economy 7. Could even buy a solar version for future proofing

 

[mikeimp]

Do you recommend any particular manufacturer ?

 

[JCSPLUMBING]

Megaflo are decent. I've also fitted range tribune by kingfisher. there all up to the job

 

[stevetheplumber]

electric will put of more buyers than lpg

 

[TVP&H Ltd]

Oil is more expensive to install, but upto 50% cheaper to run. If your willing to do most of the labour work the cost of tank install is considerably reduced. Fitting an external oil combo will also help save space indoors.

 

[gassafe]

I would not buy a house on electric heating, defs the most expensive to run & not really a fan of electric fan type heaters on the walls!

I would go oil or even Lpg!

 

[jtsplumbing]

No good thinking along the lines of what you want ! it's what's going to make it easy to sell, 3 bed cottage, if stuck for space LPG combi with rads, free storage tank and pipe work to property, or oil but boilers tend to be expensive, As gassafe also pointed out all electric would put of a lot of buyers

 

[gmartine]

The OP has already said he's going to DIY it so he's not going to spend thousands on a decent heating and hot water system.

Get an electrician in to wire up some wall mounted oil panel heaters and an electric shower.

 

[thompsonbrown]

The cost of an oil tank is too much and a lot of work. I think LPG will put buyers off and so I am leaning towards electric. I have arranged a new water supply so that should be fine. So any suggestions for a good electric system would be helpful.

If you think lpg bottles will put customers off, wait to they find out the running costs of an electric heating system.

 

[mikeimp]

Is lpg comparable in cost to run as oil?

 

[Ray Stafford]

LPG is much more expensive than oil.

Oct 15 rates, LPG was 6.26pence per kw/h. Oil was 3.51p, slightly lower than mains gas. Electricity at standard rate was over 15 pence per kw/h. Its cheaper on off peak tariffs, but still prohibitively expensive.

There is no solution which ticks all your boxes. Electric will be quick and easy to install, but the running costs will (rightly) put buyers off. All other solutions require significant investment.

 

[Worcester]

Oil is currently lowest price for 8 years - 29.2p/litre = cheaper than mains gas / kWh at the moment.

Having said that, if you are 'doing up' a small cottage, so long as you are bringing it up to a decent insulation level, then I'd go for an Air Source Heat Pump. - What emitters are you considering - rads or underfloor heating?

Who is your target buyer? Old or young, nest builders or empty nesters? Both will appreciate the long term reduced running costs. And allow you to charge a premium price for the propoerty.

Oh and you / they can get the additional capital cost over an LPG/Oil boiler) paid back by the Government.

 

[mikeimp]

I am going for rads. I have never heard of anair source heat pump. Do you have any further info?

 

[Millsy 82]

If you were staying there I would say go for oil or air heat source (but only if it's well insulated)

If your not staying there put an lpg boiler in. Most people don't want electric boilers unless they really don't have any other option and all the buyer will look at is its a nice new boiler. You can even have a bulk storage tank installed for free or a buried one for £1300 around me.

 

[jtsplumbing]

As Millsy says, You can still do all the radiators and pipe work up to boiler location just get someone in to do boiler/Flue and gas pipe / connections, Free tank , and pipe work up to house, then put in gas points for cooker/fire just gives buyers the option of what cooker they want, most people still prefer to cook on gas, and a nice living flame fire

 

[sgamar]

electric

 

[Worcester]

I am going for rads. I have never heard of anair source heat pump. Do you have any further info?

Really ! - Check our the Energy Saving Trust's website: Air source heat pumps | Energy Saving Trust

The government plans for 500,000 of these installed by 2020 (me thinks they'll miss that target!)

 

[flat Eric]

How about a potterton gold electric boiler with a unvented cylinder, I have fitted 3 of these boilers and there great!. Maybe look at some solar pv panels.

 

[Worcester]

How about a potterton gold electric boiler with a unvented cylinder, I have fitted 3 of these boilers and there great!. Maybe look at some solar pv panels.

Electric Boilers at 100% effiecieny - 1kWh in = 1kWh out
ASHP in bad installation 1kWh in = 2.5kWh out = 250% efficiency

However electric boilers don't require much knowledge to install, ASHP's do.

Discussion ends

 

[Worcester]

The government plans for 500,000 of these installed by 2020 (me thinks they'll miss that target!)

I got that wrong actually - here's the real target:

6.8 MILLION heatpumps by 2030

(Bear in mind this was Barking's speech and that we now have the most anti-renewables government in 20+ years - The current government is focussed on a dash to gas for electricity generation hence the push for fracking, also the claim that gas will reduce emissions over coal so they are doing OK..)


That comes from the 2013 Governments committment to the Committee on Climate Change's 4th carbon budget, covering 2023-2027, was set in June 2011 following advice from the Committee in December 2010.

As part of the agreement to set the budget, the Government announced that it would be reviewed in 2014. The Climate Change Act states that it must be based on advice from the Committee, and must consider whether there has been a significant change in the circumstances upon which the budget was set. Only if there is a significant change, demonstrable on the basis of evidence and analysis, can the budget be changed.

In practice this is pie in the sky:

To give this issue some perspective, assume a heat pump of 12kW thermal output, apply a performance factor of 3:1 and assume the input energy would be close to 4kW. This figure, multiplied by the total number of heat pumps accruing at 450,000 per year, equals the extra energy required.

Although this collective total load is based upon all heat pump units running simultaneously, the probability is extremely high. Similarities in weather patterns across national regions will increase the coincidence of units running simultaneously. The total energy required to power 450,000 heat pumps would be 1.8GW. Electrical demand, increasing by 1.8GW each year for the next 15 years, will total 27GW by 2030.

This would mean increasing our current energy production capacity by at least 27GW, before 2030 arrives. Our current average energy usage for UK varies around 35/45GW, and peaks occasionally at around 50GW. The anticipated number of heat pumps will almost double the amount of electrical energy used in the UK today. Will heat pump numbers meet 2030 predictions? | Renewable Energy Installer

 

[Worcester]

Now imagine the impact if everyone installed electric boilers!!!!

 

[Sparkgap]

If going for ASHP and rads you'll need to bear in mind lower flow temps so bigger rads needed and possible increase to incoming mains supply if you're going to have electric cooker and shower on top. Underfloor heating would be best but depends on how good/bad the building is insulated. Also looking about 5.68p/kWh. LPG tank has issues with distances from boundary etc. as well as higher costs.
I'd go for a kerosene boiler, normal rads and indirect cylinder. About 3.5p/kWh to run.

Now imagine the impact if everyone installed electric boilers!!!!

I installed about 1.5MW of ASHPs in schools some years ago. The big issue was the additional loadings on already high site demands: in one case I had to put in a super-duper 3ph supply to handle the design load and the school were moaning about the additional metering charges. More so since they then didn't put in the extra loadings with cookers and stuff which meant I could have put in a smaller supply etc etc. :90:. One site in a village was so near the limit and the whole village was only on a split phase supply that the next ASHP install would probably mean the whole place had to have a new transformer and a major rewire.
And don't get me going on supply/demand margins! :veryangry2: