whats a landlords legal obligation regarding solid fuel appliance.

[julesverne]

doing a cert today and came across open fire in front room

3x 4 room no ventilation to outside.

loads of soot staining outside flue hood and gaps above it.

i advised agent of this aswell as ID 'ing his chaf brittany t 2 for cracked heat exchanger.

agent has spoken to landlord who has questioned my judgement on this saying its been passed every year.


i know landlords have an legal obligation to maintain but is there a legal requirement to have a cp12 equivalent for solid fuel appliances.

as this landlord is a cock. and i dont think he's gonna get it sorted. and tenants due to move in friday and you cant cap a solid fuel fire

i'm really tempted to go see tenant and see whats been done.

 

[tamz]

Not as far as i know.

 

[SimonG]

I think your in the land of 'recommendation'. All you can do is document and notify your observations and recommend ventilation and a co alarm.

 

[julesverne]

that seems wrong to me

 

[SimonG]

It is. Same with oil.

 

[julesverne]

I think your in the land of 'recommendation'. All you can do is document and notify your observations and recommend ventilation and a co alarm.

i thought that would be it and i have documented it to the agent. but i'm really concerned as agent said they let it because tenant liked the open fire in front room so i know there going to use it unless someone says something about it to them which really bothers me.

now i know why i dont like doing cp12's and thankfully dont do so many.

 

[Dotty]

At the end of the day it's all about arse covering Jules. As long as you can demonstrate you've documented your concerns then you're ok. Whether or not those concerns are acted on is out of your hands.

Rightly or wrongly.

As Simon's said a few times, until there's more deaths attributable to oil and solid fuel appliances nothing's going to happen.

All we can do is record our observations and concerns and move on.

 

[SimonG]

I should change my log on to The Grim Reaper

 

[julesverne]

I know what your saying is right but i feel uneasy about leaving it because bugger all may be done about it im gonna speak to agent tomorrow and make sure he speaks to tenants about it. As i do believe he is legally obligated to do so.

 

[Dotty]

I know what your saying is right but i feel uneasy about leaving it because bugger all may be done about it im gonna speak to agent tomorrow and make sure he speaks to tenants about it. As i do believe he is legally obligated to do so.

I think you're confusing morally and legally Jules mate. Morally you're absolutely right, he does have to do something. Legally though?

Bearing in mind landlords (And most letting agencies) have the morals and scruples of pond slime.....

 

[julesverne]

I think you're confusing morally and legally Jules mate. Morally you're absolutely right, he does have to do something. Legally though?

Bearing in mind landlords (And most letting agencies) have the morals and scruples of pond slime.....

i let out a big sigh when i read this because i know your right even when its not right. I know this is gonna keep me awake thinking about it. Sigh i did it again

 

[Dotty]

i let out a big sigh when i read this because i know your right even when its not right. I know this is gonna keep me awake thinking about it. Sigh i did it again

caring doesn't make you a bad person mate. Sometimes, and I struggle myself, you have to detach the emotive part of the job.

You can only do what you can do.

 

[AWheating]

recommend a co dectector and regular service/clean by a competent person.

 

[lame plumber]

you can still notify trading standards/hse of the issue as the landlord still has a legal duty to ensure safe let, whether or not regs are in force to help you do the job. pass the buck

 

[Ermintrude]

I know what your saying is right but i feel uneasy about leaving it because bugger all may be done about it im gonna speak to agent tomorrow and make sure he speaks to tenants about it. As i do believe he is legally obligated to do so.

If your really concerned environmental health can enforce actions due to breach of building regs.

 

[tamz]

There is nothing much you or anyone else can do. No one is going to insist the fireplace is bricked up, not HSE or trading standards or even the polis.
You brought it to their attention but as you are not qualified to make a judgement, never tested it (and were not asked to) it will only be seen as an opinion. Right or wrong that is the way it is.
You done right but it is not your problem.
The difference and probably good point with an open fire is, if the flue isn't drawing they will get a room full of smoke and soon put the fire out and stop using it.

 

[tamz]

If your really concerned environmental health can enforce actions due to breach of building regs.

What is the breach of building regs?

 

[Ermintrude]

What is the breach of building regs?

Not sure of reg, any part of dwelling should be free from nuisance smells odour and noxious fumes . There should be a plentiful supply of clean and wholesome air to areas used for the preparation if food. It's in same bit as ventilation requirements for bedrooms 1/20 of floor space as a window 1/10 of floor space as openable window. Sure also that the construction of the flue must be suitably constructed as to withdraw products if combustion or dilute them to an acceptable level?

 

[tamz]

If the house is pre 1966 it is a whole different ball game and building regs are not retrospective.

Only time it could apply is if the fireplace has been blocked of and is reopened. Then it has to comply with todays regs. Doesn't sound like that is the case here.

 

[Ermintrude]

Possibly part J? House built before it was even thought about?

 

[tamz]

Edit....... should say

Then it has to comply with todays regs....regards ventilation and testing of the flue.

I'd forget it. Not my problem.

 

[Ermintrude]

For house to be deemed habitable it must meet environmental heaths standards, if soild fuel fire is a risk, environmental Heath have right to condemn whole house as unfit for human habitation . Have experience of litigation with similar issue. LL cannot simply re let the house gas a supervision order imposed on it. Council can even charge the ll cost of rectification works!

 

[tamz]

But we don't know if it is a risk. Many fireplaces have blackened canopies. Sometimes it can take a good 10 minutes (which is allowed) for the flue to heat up enough to start drawing properly. Depends on many variables. Size of flue height pressure zones etc.

Best left to someone who knows what they are doing.
Jules alerted them to a "possible" problem. The rest is up to them.

 

[Ermintrude]

Yes but trading standards can't do owt, HSE possibly could but won't , EHO defo can and have subcontract specialists to check. Don't know much about open fires as never had owt to do with them other than bbu installs in old coke bb fireplaces.

 

[Ermintrude]

Landlords legal obligation and a contractual one is that the property be fit for habitation...... This is determined by EHO inspector.

 

[tamz]

Fitted hundreds possibly thousands. 2-3 a week for a while. Got fed up spitting soot out and never having clean hands after about 3 years. The good money slowed my thinking brain down :lol: