What to charge customers...

[Harvest Fields]

Hmmmm.

I use the Sprint Mobile App for my FGA and issuing CP12.

There are 3 options on the Tightness Test - PASS - FAIL - NA

If I select NA, then the cert passes. If I select FAIl, then it fails.

So, Sprint thinks the tightness test is not mandatory. But failing it will cause the cert to fail.


Can someone less lazy than me call GS and settle this?
J

Settle what?

 

[Mastermixlee]

Surely you mean a total of 4 minutes and 15 getting access to it.

And yes of course lol but only 2 minutes is actually a tightness test (the other 2 are just preparing and ensuring accuracy )

 

[Jerry]

Settle what?

If tightness tests are optional on CP12's

 

[Harvest Fields]

If tightness tests are optional on CP12's

Sure it was in a gas engineer magazine.

 

[Ben-gee]

Ask yourself why you are doing the test.

If it’s to make yourself money, don’t bother with the tightness test if it’s not a legal requirement. (Legitimate view - I’m not judging)

If you are also trying to do your bit to help people/keep them safe , do the test.

Whatever you do, unfortunately some people will die due to gas related domestic incidents as things can/will go wrong.

 

[Harvest Fields]

If tightness tests are optional on CP12's

Bottom bullet point. Recommendation only.

You’re welcome

 

[Mastermixlee]

Bottom bullet point. Recommendation only.

You’re welcome

View attachment 39263

Thanks for that.
So to further delve in the the rabbit hole that is this conversation.
To perform flue flow (to and check flue/chimney is clear) on a gas fire you'd be removing it (and obviously checking catchment space dimensions etc).
If you found the catchment space to be full of muck but the job you had attended was only a cp12 and not charged for service on the fire.... Would you vacuum it up or would you advise and charge for a service.

Let the divisive opinions commence!

 

[Harvest Fields]

Thanks for that.
So to further delve in the the rabbit hole that is this conversation.
To perform flue flow (to and check flue/chimney is clear) on a gas fire you'd be removing it (and obviously checking catchment space dimensions etc).
If you found the catchment space to be full of muck but the job you had attended was only a cp12 and not charged for service on the fire.. Would you vacuum it up or would you advise and charge for a service.

Let the divisive opinions commence!

2 things here. You would call the landlord and get permission to service whilst on site and get paid extra for the service. Also, if you have removed the fire you need to do a tightness test as you have broken a gas connection.

 

[Jerry]

I agree with Harvest Fields.

Get permission to fix the problem or....1) Cap off the gas fire or 2) Fail the CP12 and cap off the house.....hmmm

 

[Mastermixlee]

I agree with Harvest Fields.

Get permission to fix the problem or....1) Cap off the gas fire or 2) Fail the CP12 and cap off the house...hmmm

Talking of which.
If you cap a gas fire due to spillage etc then that appliance has failed. But if capped then risk is removed. So cp12 still a pass (overall)a fire is technically decommissioned? *Insert thinking face emoji here....as they don't have it on the forum *

 

[Harvest Fields]

Talking of which.
If you cap a gas fire due to spillage etc then that appliance has failed. But if capped then risk is removed. So cp12 still a pass (overall)a fire is technically decommissioned? *Insert thinking face emoji here....as they don't have it on the forum *

If ID then cap. If the rest of the CP12 is fine, then awesome.

 

[Deleted member 32524]

Arrange service before you go with additional cost agreed. If not then just go and do cp12 report. Anything AR it is off and stickers or I'D capped and stickerd. Leaving WA Notice on both.

 

[Harvest Fields]

I agree with Harvest Fields.

Get permission to fix the problem or....1) Cap off the gas fire or 2) Fail the CP12 and cap off the house...hmmm

1) cannot cap unless ID, even if full of s**t

 

[Mastermixlee]

I do love this forum. Can have a much better discussion of regs etc here than with some of the colleagues I've had over the years who seem to chat rubbish.

Good little community here

Only downside is my wife thinks I'm a loser for being on work related websites all the time

 

[Millsy 82]

Thanks for that.
So to further delve in the the rabbit hole that is this conversation.
To perform flue flow (to and check flue/chimney is clear) on a gas fire you'd be removing it (and obviously checking catchment space dimensions etc).
If you found the catchment space to be full of muck but the job you had attended was only a cp12 and not charged for service on the fire.. Would you vacuum it up or would you advise and charge for a service.

Let the divisive opinions commence!

Write it on your cp12 needs a service if its bad enough AR or ID it then move one you can ask if they want it done there and then if you choose but most companies I've worked for was just note it down unless it's the main heating appliance like a boiler then seek permission straight away.

 

[Jerry]

Talking of which.
If you cap a gas fire due to spillage etc then that appliance has failed. But if capped then risk is removed. So cp12 still a pass (overall)a fire is technically decommissioned? *Insert thinking face emoji here....as they don't have it on the forum *

I usually don't charge for capping off a gas fire...but then again, most landlords are happy to have their cp12's and they have known for a while the fire is problematic.

 

[Welder]

I do love this forum. Can have a much better discussion of regs etc here than with some of the colleagues I've had over the years who seem to chat rubbish.

Good little community here

Only downside is my wife thinks I'm a loser for being on work related websites all the time

AT least yours says you have a 'reason' to be a loser

 

[Deleted member 96286]

Can I offer this basic wee formula that works well for many jobs, but obviously not all jobs. It will get newbies started and at least help others get a rough idea of costing and does not include VAT or extras.

It works as follows:
Material cost plus markup (either 20% or 30%)
plus
Daily labour charge for duration of job (or hourly if on different jobs over a day).

So if your bathroom materials are £1500 plus 30% markup = £1950
Daily rate is £200 and for 5 working days = £1000
Total cost for job = £2950

 

[Old Account]

Find out their budget before you waste your time putting quotes together. Everyone has a price in their head of what they think it should cost, do not leave on a first visit without finding out their budget or you have already conditioned them to a price that they have agreed sounds about right, a little higher than you think it will cost. Arrange another visit to present your price at less than they were expecting and try to close the business on that visit and have a date booked in the diary before you leave house.

How can you find out their price before you even give them the price though? I’m tired of spending time to quote jobs and later on people think you will do the jobs for peanuts. The problem is that I’ve got to many people in my area they are not gas safe registered and install boilers or they are but target people who are willing to pay 2/300 pounds. All they do is rip the boiler of the wall smash the new on without any filters or proper controllers and of course no flush. 1/2 day work without even registering the boiler. I always ask them what’s roughly he ballpark figure but usually they say they don’t know. So I am a little screwed though.

 

[Millsy 82]

How can you find out their price before you even give them the price though? I’m tired of spending time to quote jobs and later on people think you will do the jobs for peanuts. The problem is that I’ve got to many people in my area they are not gas safe registered and install boilers or they are but target people who are willing to pay 2/300 pounds. All they do is rip the boiler of the wall smash the new on without any filters or proper controllers and of course no flush. 1/2 day work without even registering the boiler. I always ask them what’s roughly he ballpark figure but usually they say they don’t know. So I am a little screwed though.

I think the younger generation have an idea of how much they want to spend as they do a quick search on the internet and there are several places that say how much they should be paying.

I dont think it's a bad idea to ask as it may whittle down the jokers who want someone to supply and fit a boiler for £1000. On the other hand some customers think you are just seeing how much they are willing to pay so even if it was cheaper you would charge them the higher amount.

 

[Riley]

How can you find out their price before you even give them the price though? I’m tired of spending time to quote jobs and later on people think you will do the jobs for peanuts. The problem is that I’ve got to many people in my area they are not gas safe registered and install boilers or they are but target people who are willing to pay 2/300 pounds. All they do is rip the boiler of the wall smash the new on without any filters or proper controllers and of course no flush. 1/2 day work without even registering the boiler. I always ask them what’s roughly he ballpark figure but usually they say they don’t know. So I am a little screwed though.

Ask them? It’s all about communication, offer them a variety of boiler options potentially to meet their budget, if they feel like you are trying to accommodate them and their budget then they will be more inclined to come back to you to do the install

 

[Old Account]

Ask them? It’s all about communication, offer them a variety of boiler options potentially to meet their budget, if they feel like you are trying to accommodate them and their budget then they will be more inclined to come back to you to do the install

But then again, you will have the customers which are trying to be smart and asking you to get the material list to them so they can get stuff themselves which I think it’s a no go though. I’d rather take care of getting my materials. It is not about the mark up but it’s to make sure I have the right products on site and not having to drive around. For some people I have a quote which has about 4/5 different boilers which are more likely the poor low budget boilers which I am not interested in fitting. The reason is I don’t like the fact I install plastic flues and stuff like that. Furthermore they still find somebody who is cheaper in labour as I do not fit a boiler for 600

 

[Riley]

But then again, you will have the customers which are trying to be smart and asking you to get the material list to them so they can get stuff themselves which I think it’s a no go though. I’d rather take care of getting my materials. It is not about the mark up but it’s to make sure I have the right products on site and not having to drive around. For some people I have a quote which has about 4/5 different boilers which are more likely the poor low budget boilers which I am not interested in fitting. The reason is I don’t like the fact I install plastic flues and stuff like that. Furthermore they still find somebody who is cheaper in labour as I do not fit a boiler for 600

I didn’t say anything about give them a materials list. I mean talk to them. You will have a rough idea of your cost within 5 minutes of being there so you need to see if this ties in with their budget. If you won’t go cheap cheap boiler option which I won’t then be honest and explain why. I’ve still won plenty of jobs explaining why the better boiler is the better option and still not having to compromise my costs

 

[Deleted member 96286]

With experience, you generally get an inkling of how much a customer has to spend within 5 minutes of walking through the door, but never judge people as I've been in brand new houses with a new merc in the driveway and they're so hawked up in payments, that they have little spare cash left to spend. Talk to people and all is revealed. If someone says it's a quick easy job, and are not too bothered with what they want, then they want it cheap, if they ask for options, or to select from a catalogue then they want a decent job with money spent on it. The best thing is to always be friendly, but pop questions into the conversation without probing when doing so.

 

[Old Account]

I didn’t say anything about give them a materials list. I mean talk to them. You will have a rough idea of your cost within 5 minutes of being there so you need to see if this ties in with their budget. If you won’t go cheap cheap boiler option which I won’t then be honest and explain why. I’ve still won plenty of jobs explaining why the better boiler is the better option and still not having to compromise my costs

Trust me I do this day in and day out. I always ask the customers what’s their ballpark figure or budget for this work but if you believe it or not most of them say “I do not know” which is obviously not true as everyone knows what they would like to spend. I’m tired of sitting down pricing jobs and therapy aren’t even bothered to letting you know that they have chosen somebody else’s. Quotes should not be for free as it used to be in the past so that people take things more serious especially when it comes out of their own pocket. Nowadays they invite 5/10 people to quote the jobs for...hahah I also think there should be a website created for engineers and builders who can leave reviews about rough customers which not paying, or paying late, looking for issues etc. It definitely makes the life easier for all of us as everyone one of is looking to deal with serious customers and not the nonsense

 

[Riley]

Asking the wrong questions mate. If you have to leave it that you’re telling the customer what they have and giving them no options then you’ve not proved enough

 

[Millsy 82]

But then again, you will have the customers which are trying to be smart and asking you to get the material list to them so they can get stuff themselves which I think it’s a no go though. I’d rather take care of getting my materials. It is not about the mark up but it’s to make sure I have the right products on site and not having to drive around. For some people I have a quote which has about 4/5 different boilers which are more likely the poor low budget boilers which I am not interested in fitting. The reason is I don’t like the fact I install plastic flues and stuff like that. Furthermore they still find somebody who is cheaper in labour as I do not fit a boiler for 600

I give a breakdown of what I'm fitting and I've had a few people turn around and say I can get the parts cheaper than you can, I always say the same though I charge x% on top of all materials if you want to supply the materials that is fine but you have to do the warranty which you will only get 2 years not 7. They then say cant you do the warranty? No I only register materials supplied by myself. I've lost a couple of jobs over it but not really worried as most people go oh ok I will pay the extra.

 

[Old Account]

Asking the wrong questions mate. If you have to leave it that you’re telling the customer what they have and giving them no options then you’ve not proved enough

That’s not quite true though. I have give a lot of options and a lot free advises what I would do if I was them. I always say it’s down to them what they use as I can only recommend guide them through the process. So, I think I am not far from being polite, and definitely treat them very well. It’s just them being not honest and wanting to cut corners but then again, I am the wrong person to deal with. I’d rather take people on board which are genuine and willing to work with a good engineer rather than cowboys.

 

[Deleted member 32524]

Everyone knows how much they want to spend or how much they have to spend before you go. I already know how much it is going to approximately cost when I see site and listen to their ideas on what they want. If they want it for peanuts I point thus out and explain about my overheads and costs and explain a realistic price. If they then realise they were way off I will then put time and effort in to it, if not then I won't waste my time quoting.

 

[Riley]

Exactly there’s no point trying to squeeze blood out of a stone. Unless you are desperate for work (worrying) don’t be afraid to tell people why something costs more than they think. This constant under cutting is no good for the trade. The difference between an estimate and a quote can be your ally if you think someone is just trying to find the cheapest option

 

[HoodedClaw]

As a self employed, not vat Registered, Domestic wet works plumbing only (no gas) I just charge a flat rate of £60 per hour for the first five hours and then that was it for my day rate of £300. The only time I ever thought otherwise was when it got to 3 hours or four hours then I quite often just charge a half day as it worked out a bit cheaper for the customer And I knew I’d keep them as a customer the next time. I was always still the cheapest in Winchester by around £20 per hour more without the VAT obviously but on the back of that I’ve never had to pay for advertising and always just worked off word-of-mouth. I know I could’ve charged more but as someone who is used to trades regularly in the past I just can’t bring myself to overcharge anyone. The parts and materials are generally added 20% on if anyone wanted to question that I just pointed out that I’m happy to charge them the two hours it took me to search for it instead, but that rarely happened.

if I come to gas I’ll be charging 80 or £90 an hour but I wouldn’t be touching any wet work whatsoever to make up for the added expenses needed for the gasworks.