What electric works can plumbers undertake

[gpbeck]

What do the insurers say? Or maybe don’t ask..

 

[midsman]

What do the insurers say? Or maybe don’t ask..

That’s the question lol. This is such a grey area.

 

[WC1]

spurs can get complicated .

Hi Murdoch, any chance you can elaborate a little....
I thought after spur was ok as long as circuit is protected properly.

 

[Murdoch]

Hi Murdoch, any chance you can elaborate a little..
I thought after spur was ok as long as circuit is protected properly.

it depends on where and how the load cable runs. If it’s in the fabric of the building its part of the fixed wiring.

 

[midsman]

it depends on where and how the load cable runs. If it’s in the fabric of the building its part of the fixed wiring.

so a fused spur that has the wiring before the spur that is in trunking or wall mounted is okay to wire into but if it’s in the wall it’s not?

 

[Chuck]

so a fused spur that has the wiring before the spur that is in trunking or wall mounted is okay to wire into but if it’s in the wall it’s not?

Some of the confusion here may be because the word 'spur' can refer to several different things. I'd use it to mean a branch circuit tee'd off a main circuit. It's also often used to refer to what I'd call a fused connection unit (FCU). FCU's come in several types, one of which is a flex ('pigtail') outlet that are often used to supply things like immersion heaters or boilers*.

My reading of @Murdoch is that in his opinion it's okay for you to connect flex into an existing FCU flex outlet but from there back to the consumer unit will be 'fixed wiring', which requires additional qualifications to work on. Where the FCU is being used as an isolator, not a flex outlet, it's a job for an electrician.

(*) There's a school of thought that holds that boilers should be connected via a 13A plug and socket so that a heating engineer can visually verify isolation before working on the boiler.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Boilers don’t run on a 13A fuse. (Just so that you know)

 

[Chuck]

Boilers don’t run on a 13A fuse. (Just so that you know)

The '13A' in '13A plug' does not refer to the fuse it contains but to the maximum rating. A 13A plug fitted with a 3A fuse is still a '13A plug'. You can also get 2A, 5A and 15A plugs but these don't contain a fuse at all.

 

[midsman]

thank you for your replies by fused spur I mean the white box that things like boilers , shower pumps , immersion heaters are wired into
[automerge]1605252947[/automerge]

thank you for your replies by fused spur I mean the white box that things like boilers , shower pumps , immersion heaters are wired into.

mu understanding is that these are called fcu’s

 

[Harvest Fields]

The '13A' in '13A plug' does not refer to the fuse it contains but to the maximum rating. A 13A plug fitted with a 3A fuse is still a '13A plug'. You can also get 2A, 5A and 15A plugs but these don't contain a fuse at all.

Was just clarifying as your original message didn’t say that.

 

[midsman]

So for me to be clear In my head lol Can a plumber Wire into an fcu (which I understand to be a fused connection unit at the end Of a spur or even on its own circuit from consumer unit) - a shower pump, a boiler, an immersion heater for a hot water cylinder. and also a zone valve and pump wired via the wiring centre. I’m envisaging the common situation face by plumbers whereby one is broken and needs replacing like for like.

Can this be done without being qualified electrically?

is it notifiable or minor works etc such that an electrician is required each time you want to swap a heating system component.

 

[Ric2013]

My understanding is that 'installing fixed electrical equipment is within the scope of Part P, even if the final connection is by a standard 13A plug and socket, but is notifiable only if it involves work set out in regulation 12(6A).' (ADJ, p.7)

I used to think that this heating control wiring needed to be carried out by a competent person or be notified under the building regulations. I have since been advised (on this forum) that this isn't what is meant by control wiring (which is, or used to be, notifiable).

In practice, I would rather do the work and then ask an electrician to check and formally sign the work off as most electricians understand electrical safety but not heating controls. This relies on a good working relationship with an electrician, however. It is worth noting that it is would be a small minority of electricians that would go to the effort of testing and recording the replacement of, say, a lamp pendant, provided the light goes on and off with the switch.

I suspect the technical answer is that while a lot of those works )even a directly like-for-like replacement of an electric shower) may not technically require to be notified, they still need to comply with the building regulations. As we are plumbers and do not have a comprehensive understanding of BS7671 (The IEE regs), nor do we have the specialist calibrated equipment with which to test any work we may carry out, then technically we would be unable to ensure that our non-notifiable work is 'inspected, tested and certificated in accordance with BS 7671' (ADJ, p. 10).

 

[Chuck]

Can this be done without being qualified electrically?

Here's my opinion for what it's worth.

A plumber with literally 'no electrical quals or part p.' should not be doing any work involving electricity in a customer's home until they have passed a recognised 'basic electricity for plumbers' course. This will teach you things like isolation, proving isolation, visual inspection, simple electrical tests using a multimeter, preparing and making straightforward connections, etc. It will also make it clear what you are and are not qualified to do. If you tell the instructor what sort of work you want to do they'll be able to say whether you're covered or which additional course(s) you need to take.

This is largely for your own protection. You do not want to injure yourself (hence the 'isolation') and you don't want to be the totally unqualified plumber who is being accused by a customer of incompetent electrical work.

Firstly, make a list of what you want to be able to do and contact your local college to see what they have on offer in the way of suitable courses. Secondly, try to develop a good working relationship with an electrician who can help you out with small jobs if necessary.

 

[midsman]

Thank you chuck for that answer. I like a clear answer. Where are these electricity for plumbers or basic electricity for plumbers courses? any recomendations

 

[Harvest Fields]

As we are throwing in opinions. Mine would be the fact that if the wiring is powering something that is already in place then an Heating engineer can wire up any part of the heating system he wishes as long as he holds the correct qualifications for that appliance. If however, he was taking out storage heaters and and immersion heater and putting a combi in the kitchen and a new spur is needed then a sparks should be doing the works. Or an engineer with electrical qualms.