Websites and minimum order for carriage paid

[Ray Stafford]

Hi All

A quick question. Most websites have some kind of delivery charge for small orders. This reflects the fact that there is a minimum cost of picking, packing and shipping an order, and organisations don't want a £10 overhead on a £5 sale.

However, it is clearly a barrier sometimes - you see something you want, its well priced and you need it now, but it only costs £20, and you either have to pay £10 delivery charge, or order £80 worth of stuff you don't necessarily need.

There are some websites that offer a solution to this - Amazon Prime would be a good example. Or a wine site I belong to does this - Laithwaites unlimited

In both cases, you pay an annual fixed fee up front in return for unlimited free delivery for the rest of the year, even on smaller orders.

Its one of the ideas in the bucket for the 2nd generation release of our website, and I wondered what you guys thought. Would you / other plumbers be likely to use it? I think that we would have to price it at around £50. I don't think we could do it on the timed deliveries, which are quite expensive, but its usually the larger orders (like boilers) that are time sensitive. If you just want to buy a box of rubber gloves, it doesn't really matter if it comes tomorrow or the next day.

Thoughts appreciated.

 

[Roger Welton]

It's never really bothered me the whole min order to get free delivery, if i'm closish to the threshold I'll order more stuff, if miles off i'll just pay the carriage. Couldn't see myself paying in advance for such a service.

 

[SimonG]

What Roger said.

If im close to the free delivery then ill chuck a couple of items on to take it over or just pay the delivery.


An annual fee wouldnt fit for me as a sole trader.

 

[Mike Jackson]

If I need the gear then I'll either pay the carriage or bump the cost up to over the minimum order value. It's only when ordering from sites like Amazon where you're unlikely to be able to up the order that things like the Prime membership is worth it, or used to be worth it until they added video streaming to it and I cancelled my prime membership. I'll just use the free slower delivery option now.

With BES I up the order to above minimum because I'm buying stuff that I can use time and again.

 

[mfgs]

Same as above, I would just pay the carriage when needed or order more stuff if close to the free delivery limit.

 

[cr0ft]

There would be very few if any orders I would be placing online with you that would be less than £100 + VAT to be honest so it wouldn't be something that would bother me much.

 

[Masood]

See - I would pay that. I don't mind a one-off annual fee of £50 knowing that I could buy stuff and have it next day. I don't have space to store 450 fittings, and it would take me a while to get through them. I do need a couple of boxes of rubber gloves, and nobody near me sells Black Mambas. This kind of situation need only happen 5 times a year to make back the upfront cost and I think it'd be worth the peace of mind.

 

[gassafe]

It's pretty normal practise to pay delivery on small orders online now so I don't think its too much of a shock to anyone...

I wouldn't subscribe to an delivery subscription either... And if was a merchant shipping out small individual fittings I would regret offering it as it would end up costing lol!

I don't pay amazon delivery either, tho it annoys me when they hold back from posting the item deliberatly for a few days because I chose the free postage!

 

[REDSAW]

no, i am not a fan.
dont like postage clubs as it is like a commitment to order and always the thought of a company going under (not in your case) but in general.

i would rather pay a p&p relevant to order value/postage method then you get what you pay for as a consumer!

hope that helps.?

ps. i compare to skunkfix

 

[cr0ft]

See - I would pay that. I don't mind a one-off annual fee of £50 knowing that I could buy stuff and have it next day. I don't have space to store 450 fittings, and it would take me a while to get through them. I do need a couple of boxes of rubber gloves, and nobody near me sells Black Mambas. This kind of situation need only happen 5 times a year to make back the upfront cost and I think it'd be worth the peace of mind.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. If you don't have much storage space then I think it is probably much more appealing. If you do then you probably will be ordering larger orders each time.

 

[Nostrum]

Hmm. There have been a few times I've browsed your site Ray and spotted a load of consumable type items that are well priced that I need, but the delivery has put me off if I'm honest.

Most of these items I've probably now bought on an as and when basis in a local merchant, who are getting fed up with me saying I can get it for X price elsewhere.

I'm actually sorting out my store now so that I can bulk buy and keep my own stock which means I can shop around for the better prices, it's surprising how much you can save by looking around on even smaller items over a year. This was also partly to overcome small orders and delivery costs.

I'm not sure I would pay for delivery upfront though if I'm honest like you have suggested, call me tight or hard to please.

i may be tempted by a pay for 4 orders get the 5th free type offer? Maybe that could work?

 

[plumber0808]

Would It be aimed at tradesmen out of your branch areas then? Because If I want something from the merchants I go and get it because its local.
I can see the appeal if you use your merchants all the time and can not easily get to one, £50 would be worth paying to receive the service

 

[Gray0689]

Would that help delivery to NI

 

[kay-jay]

Well ray
Its not for everyone but it will suit others..

It is probably worthwile to offer it for those that want it...
Those that are well established will no doubt prefer to bump ip there orders for free delivery and save the fiddy but those building a business that is still a bit up and down in terms of revenue and profit may well get great benefit from it.

 

[Chalked]

I have no problem paying for postage or the minimum order to get it free.

but what if somone local to a branch ( say 5 miles away) thinks i will pay the £50, then because I can't be bothered going to the branch I will order my stuff every day on line. This would cost you a fortune.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Would that help delivery to NI

I haven't really thought about it in connection with NI.

Our problem is two fold where NI is concerned.

a) All the carriers from the UK surcharge it and
b) the only decent carrier that have found (and we have tried several now) doesn't offer a NI service. They will sub it on to a "partner", but then I lose control of service quality AND it costs a fortune.

 

[plumber0808]

I have no problem paying for postage or the minimum order to get it free.

but what if somone local to a branch ( say 5 miles away) thinks i will pay the £50, then because I can't be bothered going to the branch I will order my stuff every day on line. This would cost you a fortune.

On the flip side it could be a good thing because everyone wants to get their moneys worth. I would be more likely to buy more in the long run if i have paid for the service anyway.
More of the lions share of orders/sales for Williams and Co

 

[Ray Stafford]

but what if somone local to a branch ( say 5 miles away) thinks i will pay the £50, then because I can't be bothered going to the branch I will order my stuff every day on line. This would cost you a fortune.

This is a risk I had been considering. If only one or two people do it, then to be honest it doesn't really matter in the bigger picture. But if lots of people started doing it, we would have a problem.

 

[Dotty]

I haven't really thought about it in connection with NI.

Our problem is two fold where NI is concerned.

a) All the carriers from the UK surcharge it and
b) the only decent carrier that have found (and we have tried several now) doesn't offer a NI service. They will sub it on to a "partner", but then I lose control of service quality AND it costs a fortune.

And this is why you teeter on the edge of a ban.......

It's only your gardening exploits that keep you on!

 

[Gray0689]

I haven't really thought about it in connection with NI.

Our problem is two fold where NI is concerned.

a) All the carriers from the UK surcharge it and
b) the only decent carrier that have found (and we have tried several now) doesn't offer a NI service. They will sub it on to a "partner", but then I lose control of service quality AND it costs a fortune.

So that's a no then :-( pity

 

[Nostrum]

This is a risk I had been considering. If only one or two people do it, then to be honest it doesn't really matter in the bigger picture. But if lots of people started doing it, we would have a problem.

Could you you limit it to postcode so that anyone local to a branch is excluded?

 

[Ray Stafford]

Could you you limit it to postcode so that anyone local to a branch is excluded?

We probably could but I try to avoid p1ssing off local plumbers if I can.

 

[stevetheplumber]

if i was using a online merchant on a regular basis id go for it, when i was buying stuff i would always up the order and get the free delivery as theres always something you know your going to use

 

[Phil]

It would suit me down to the ground, I never have time during the day (doing mostly bathrooms where the days goes too quick) to get to the merchants. they close at 5:00pm and I work late so if I need anything urgent I have to go to Plumbfix before they close at 8:00pm.

I may want for example a BTW pan connector but I would never pay the £10 postage and so woud bump up to £100 EX Vat in your case but sometimes wouldn't have time to sort through exactly what I wanted in the way or fittings so that would put me off as well.

So yes I would do it.

 

[lame plumber]

I tend to try and order in amounts likely to give me free postage fm the likes of HWOS and BES, so payment up front not an issue. However last week I looked at your beta offer and compared my merchant and yourself for pricing and the tenner on the delivery made it not worthwhile using your services as I could drive down the road and get all I needed, and it cost me £3 more without having to wait for delivery. If you were down the road, your would get my business but paying for delivery etc doesnt make it worthwhile at present, unless you get my favoured boilers in stock

 

[smtplumbing]

ray tbh i order boilers of you abit so i would just sick with in my order.

 

[smtplumbing]

tho i may need a towel rad shortly and i happy pay postage

 

[kay-jay]

ray
im about to order the 450 fittings, send one fitting daily please so they fit through letterbox. thanks muchly:dizzy2:












to illustrate the point you may need to build in a fair usage clause

 

[Ray Stafford]

ray
im about to order the 450 fittings, send one fitting daily please so they fit through letterbox. thanks muchly:dizzy2:
to illustrate the point you may need to build in a fair usage clause

Yes. I looked at the Laithwaite unlimited terms and conditions which gives them that copout. They reserve the right to cancel it, and refund prorata.

We get this from time to time. You set something up which you think will be for the benefit of customers, and 99.9% of people happily take it in the spirit it is intended, but some prt@t thinks its funny to take the p1ss.

 

[Kev the gas]

I prefer to go into the Littlehampton branch, guaranteed to get a crap 5 year old joke from Steve, and your coffee keeps me regular :asshole:

 

[Ray Stafford]

I prefer to go into the Littlehampton branch, guaranteed to get a crap 5 year old joke from Steve, and your coffee keeps me regular :asshole:

5 year old? Has he updated his joke book then?

 

[TBServices]

I'd pay for it.

I wanted 3 pairs of pump valves and a box of black mambas from you Ray, but once you add the shipping on, the savings to be made from your excellent prices would have been wiped out, and I'm not in a position to buy £100 worth of van stock right now. And tbh, even if I was, I'm not the kind of person who would.

So yes, great idea and I'm sure the option would attract a lot of orders from a lot more people.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Thanks all.

I understand that its not a service that everyone would take up.

Thinking about it, we would probably still need a minimum to avoid the type of p1ss taking that Kev was talking about, but it could be as low as £10 or even £5. Or maybe we just rely on a "fair use" clause, and reserve the right to refund and cancel the service for the occasional to55er.

For those of you that would take it up, would you prefer to pay a lump sum once a year (say £48 for the sake of argument) or a monthly standing charge of £4?

The former would be a lower admin overhead, but I can see that some people, particularly those who don't know us, might be put off by being asked to stump up the whole lot in one go, and might prefer something that they could cancel if they didn't use it.

Again, your thoughts much appreciated.

 

[TBServices]

Monthly seems fair provided it doesn't cost any more than the one off fee, and you keep the bargains coming.

How are you going to manage the emails when the site comes out of beta? There won't be enough stock if they stay as they are now

 

[Ray Stafford]

How are you going to manage the emails when the site comes out of beta? There won't be enough stock if they stay as they are now

We don't plan a "big launch" campaign. The next step will be to open up the mailing list to all our existing customers, but probably in batches, so that we can manage demand and fulfilment. After that, we will probably just rely mostly on word of mouth, this forum sponsoship, and by adding references to the ecommerce site in our existing marketing channels (for instance in the Gassafe mag). Tony, our telemarketer, now asks permission to add people to the mailing list when he talks to them.

We aren't a "get rich quick" outfit, and I am happy to spend years building it up steadily, so long as we keep the service and value up.

The offers are sometimes underwritten by us, and sometimes by the manufacturer. Until I can accurately gauge demand, I wanted to keep it small - but as we get a better feel for it, we will be able to negotiate larger deals with the manufacturers.

The limit per customer will remain, because I want this to be for genuine customers, not chancers who just buy off our deals and then put them on ebay, undercutting proper tradesmen trying to make a margin on materials.

 

[Chalked]

We don't plan a "big launch" campaign. The next step will be to open up the mailing list to all our existing customers, but probably in batches, so that we can manage demand and fulfilment. After that, we will probably just rely mostly on word of mouth, this forum sponsoship, and by adding references to the ecommerce site in our existing marketing channels (for instance in the Gassafe mag). Tony, our telemarketer, now asks permission to add people to the mailing list when he talks to them.

We aren't a "get rich quick" outfit, and I am happy to spend years building it up steadily, so long as we keep the service and value up.

The offers are sometimes underwritten by us, and sometimes by the manufacturer. Until I can accurately gauge demand, I wanted to keep it small - but as we get a better feel for it, we will be able to negotiate larger deals with the manufacturers.

The limit per customer will remain, because I want this to be for genuine customers, not chancers who just buy off our deals and then put them on ebay, undercutting proper tradesmen trying to make a margin on materials.

you really talk some sense there mate.

 

[Killy Bing]

Ray could you do it as a perk too, if your account clears 5k a month or something then you get it for the next month?

Minimum order of £10 is reasonable i think, minus a few copper fittings (which would be taking the p!ss) its easy to pop over that.

 

[Nostrum]

If your clearing 5k a month are you really going to be bothered about £4?

 

[Killy Bing]

If your clearing 5k a month are you really going to be bothered about £4?

depends, the perks are there if you want to use it then
incentive

 

[Ray Stafford]

If your clearing 5k a month are you really going to be bothered about £4?

Its a funny old world, and people get bugged by the oddest things.

Since we launched the beta test of the website, we have taken 122 orders. Of these, more than 100 are miles over the carriage paid limit, so it clearly isn't having any effect. However, there are only 2 of the 122 where the purchaser has opted to pay carriage, and about 16 or 17 that are just over the carriage paid limit.

There are also more than 20 abandoned carts with items totalling less than £50. There are only a handful of abandoned carts with order values over £100.

It was this that made me think that we needed to find a better solution that the blunt instrument of the £100 threshold.

 

[Roger Welton]

Although you are probably making as much as you are losing as folk bump up there spend to clear the £100 threshold.

 

[Simon F]

What would work better for me for the odd order is to have a lower threshold.
BES postage is £4-95 plus vat
or spend over £40 before vat, so £48-00 free post.

I do regularly put an order in for £50/60
if your threshold was £50 that could make the difference.

 

[mjt]

I find that if ordering to be delivered to my home other than to site I am reticent because I'm
Not home to collect and have the hassle of arranging pick up etc so therefore revert to merchants who are local which is a shame as it deflects from the cheaper prices

 

[Nostrum]

Does that mean you have seen my abandoned shopping cart with 1 8 pence washer in it?

i couldn't justify the carriage cost.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Does that mean you have seen my abandoned shopping cart with 1 8 pence washer in it?

Nope, your discarded cart has the rubber gimp suit with the standard cod-piece. You left it there after trading down to the rubber gimp suit with the small cod-piece.

 

[Ermintrude]

The drop boxes are very good as is my local bumbcenter get all sorts dropped off there, from ladders to phones. Just be nice to the lads! I even get parts delivered ( in marked TNT bags)

 

[Nostrum]

Nope, your discarded cart has the rubber gimp suit with the standard cod-piece. You left it there after trading down to the rubber gimp suit with the small cod-piece.

Yes, talking of which I need to return that order in exchange for the X Small size.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Yes, talking of which I need to return that order in exchange for the X Small size.

I just hope it doesn't have the same sort of stains as the last order you tried to return.

 

[kay-jay]

Yes, talking of which I need to return that order in exchange for the X Small size.

Williams sell condoms?

 

[Ray Stafford]

Williams sell condoms?

We don't sell them. We give them to carefully selected customers as part of our corporate social responsibility programme. To stop the undesirables from breeding.

Did yours turn up ok?