Track pipe sizing meter locations

[Matt0167]

Hi

Has any one got information on track pipe volumes and discharge rates

Currently doing a 3 storey plot of flats with 3 flats per floor , I've been asking from day one on meter locations so we can run gas 1st fix to meter box , no M&E drawings .

Meters was agreed to go outside in a semi recessed box directly below boiler with external gas risers , Now the main contractor has said they don't want to see the gas risers and have agreed with the utility company to build a separate meter housing compartment to the front of the block from there we have been asked to run the supply in track pipe in the ground to the building into a riser cupboard were the water mains are ,

The problem this has caused now is the from meter to boiler is approximately 41 meters to the top floor flat

25 meters of trackpipe with 4 sweeping bends

16 meters in copper with 13 elbows which goes through AECV in the cupboard

My initial thoughts are we are going to be over the 0.035 installation volume to run a worcester 30 si compact as this needs 3.24m3/hr i think 28mm will have more than a 1mb drop from meter to appliance with the length of run and bends calculated,

Need to do the maths on it tonight when back

Been told they cant fit the meters internal in a riser cupboard as the door to that cupboard opens internally into the communal space , can any one clarify this ?, apparently the cupboards needs to be accessed from outside the building with an external door , this is not possible as it's in the middle of the building

Thanks for your help guys sorry for the long text

 

[ShaunCorbs]

25m of trac pipe will give you approximately 38kw with 25mm 32mm will do 67kw

28mm at 16m with 15 elbows will give you a pd of around 0.5mbar so that's fine with a load of 38kw

I can work the iv but not yet

 

[Matt0167]

25m of trac pipe will give you approximately 38kw with 25mm 32mm will do 67kw

28mm at 16m with 15 elbows will give you a pd of around 0.5mbar so that's fine with a load of 38kw

I can work the iv but not yet

Cheers shaun i spoke to someone at track pipe on the way home and they said that the 28mm wouldn't be big enough for the run I need to find the info when on laptop instead of my phone as 35 seemed excessive and reckon id be over the iv volume

 

[Gasmk1]

can tracpipe be run underground ?

just looked on site and says can be buried or run under screed so that answers my question

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Have a look at gas tite 28mm should be man enough as at 41 m with 17 bends it's around 1 mbar drop with a load of 38kw on it

 

[Matt0167]

can tracpipe be run underground ?

just looked on site and says can be buried or run under screed so that answers my question

Yeah mate got to run from these meter housing now to the main building and bring them in and change to copper , 375 depth of the top my head for light foot traffic

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Here you go

 

[Gasmk1]

Yeah mate got to run from these meter housing now to the main building and bring them in and change to copper , 375 depth of the top my head for light foot traffic

yes thought it was something like 400 but you are going to have 9 pipes so remember to mark them up with gas marker and (flat numbers) somehow in case of any ever leaking or being dug up

 

[Matt0167]

yes thought it was something like 400 but you are going to have 9 pipes so remember to mark them up with gas marker and (flat numbers) somehow in case of any ever leaking or being dug up

I know why can't they just keep the riser external nothing wrong with a bit of copper running up the side of the the new render only got to go 3 storeys high haha look great from my house,

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I know why can't they just keep the riser external nothing wrong with a bit of copper running up the side of the the new render only got to go 3 storeys high haha look great from my house,

People stealing them they've boxed all the local ones round me

 

[Matt0167]

People stealing them they've boxed all the local ones round me

Xmas around the corner them pikeys will be in for a treat with this one haha

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Xmas around the corner them pikeys will be in for a treat with this one haha

Keeps me in work but don't get any scrap

 

[Matt0167]

Can one of you maths wizards check this for me please , Not my strongest point hence why I couldn't sit in a office all day

Iv volume of the supply I've got to install

41meters in total from meter to boiler consisting of track pipe and 28mm tube

28mm tube 16 meters, volume 0.00864 plus 10% fittings comes to 0.0095

28mm track pipe 25 meters , 0.016 (1m of T.p volume is 0.00064) listed on there site

Meter volume 0.008.

0.0095+0.016+0.008= 0.033 just under the maximum of 0.035

Sound about right ?


Next stage

3.24 M3/HR for boiler no other appliances as yet but never know if they want to throw a hob in at some point


16 meters of 28mm pipe plus fittings 13 elbows @0.8 additional length = 26.4 rounded up to 30 meters as i dont know whats going on in the meter cupboard may use a few more elbows, this gives me a discharge rate of 4.7m3hr

The track pipe section is 25meters long in 28mm with 4 sweping bends if I've read it correct it's 0.3 per bend and the chart allows for 4 bends and 2 end connections giving me a discharge rate of, 3.81 M3/HR

How do I add them sections together to get a total flow rate I've never worked it out using different materials always been in copper , I don't think it works by looking at how close the flow rate is just with the trackpipe, however the 28mm does discharge a higher m3hr per meter than trackpipe so may have to reduce the trackpipe length and increase in copper if that makes sense,

Can't increase pipe size either as I will be over the I/V of 0.035

Thanks in advance

Matt

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Will work it out but you don't add them together in terms of m3/h

In short this needs to be the same or higher than the amount you require so for both legs your above your requirement

it's pressure loss you add together

 

[Matt0167]

Will work it out but you don't add them together in terms of m3/h

In short this needs to be the same or higher than the amount you require so for both legs your above your requirement

it's pressure loss you add together[/QUOTE

Hi Shaun

Sorry my bad terminology , because of the different discharge rates between t.p and copper, I understand there not added together as that would give me a massive discharge rate it's the 2 items that have thrown me off , Can't find anything in my viper book explaining it in better detail if your not doing these sort if calculations daily , easily forgotten best get revising again lol

 

[ShaunCorbs]

IVT

25 meters of 28mm tracpipe
0.00064 per m of trac pipe
0.00064 x 25 = 0.016 iv

16 meters of 28mm copper
0.00054 x 16 = 0.00864 + 10% 0.009504 iv
meter U6 0.008 iv

0.016 + 0.009504 + 0.008 = 0.0335.04 ivt

Loading

34kw requiring 3.19m3/h

25 meters of 28mm tracpipe with 4 sweeping bends

0.3 x 4 = 1.2m

total length 26.2m suitable for 3.7m3/h

16 meters of 28mm pipe plus 13 elbows

0.80 x 13 = 10.4m

16 + 10.4 = 26.4m

total length 27m suitable for 5.06m3/h

 

[Matt0167]

IVT

25 meters of 28mm tracpipe
0.00064 per m of trac pipe
0.00064 x 25 = 0.016 iv

16 meters of 28mm copper
0.00054 x 16 = 0.00864 + 10% 0.009504 iv
meter U6 0.008 iv

0.016 + 0.009504 + 0.008 = 0.0335.04 ivt

Loading

34kw requiring 3.19m3/h

25 meters of 28mm tracpipe with 4 sweeping bends

0.3 x 4 = 1.2m

total length 26.2m suitable for 3.7m3/h

16 meters of 28mm pipe plus 13 elbows

0.80 x 13 = 10.4m

16 + 10.4 = 26.4m

total length 27m suitable for 5.06m3/h

Top man cheers shaun

 

[ShaunCorbs]

pressure drop with a loading of 3.20m3/h

28mm trac pipe

25m = 0.451 mbar

28mm copper

16m = 0.432 mbar

total pressure loss 0.883

estimated not very good at pressure losses

 

[Matt0167]

pressure drop with a loading of 3.20m3/h

28mm trac pipe

25m = 0.451 mbar

28mm copper

16m = 0.432 mbar

total pressure loss 0.883

estimated not very good at pressure losses

Better than me mate

 

[ShaunCorbs]

if you upped the trac to 32mm you ivt would be

0.0275 + 0.00950 + 0.008 = 0.045 ivt

just for reference