To power flush or not to...

[ellis hill]

Hello All

I'm looking for an honest opinion! We have just moved into a house with a big radiator sludge problem. The sludge has got round into the boiler and damaged the heat exchanger. My problem is this, have been advised to have power flush done and magnetic valve fitted on the one hand. On the other have been told this is waste of time and removing the individual rads one by one and flushing with garden hose is just as effective(also £600 cheaper). So before the boiler gets repaired, which one works best?

 

[stevetheplumber]

eithr one works untill 5 years ago no one had heard of powerflush and we managed then
machine flush is less disruptive

 

[RTPS]

Yes, power flush is the way to go, spend the money and get it done

 

[Puddle]

Well if £600 cheraper,would get all rads taken off wall and flushed through in garden,flush all pipework through
But then add a system cleaning chemical and run hot for a week and then just flush though system again,leaving rads on than add inhibitor,this last bit can come out the £600 and at the end you will have a far cleaner system than power flushing
Power flushing has its place but the above way is the best
When they remove the radiators first time round get them to fit a good outlet/flushing through point in the system,not a drain cock but a tee with full bore ball a fix valve ,this will allow good flush through at end of works

 

[WHPES]

Taking off radiators and flushing with a hosepipe is most effective but you still need to flush out th pipework and boiler.

£600 for a power flush! Who did you ask for a quotation? British Gas?

Wish my customers would be happy to part with £600 for one!

Magnetic filter is a good idea - see the thread on Magnacleans.

 

[moogwai]

Havin set up my business powerflushing 2 years ago i would say definately powerflush it,but £600 seems very steep. How many radiators do you have? and i can give you a guide line on how much you be looking at from a company local to you.
With takin and just flushing out the rads in the garden you won't get rid of any major blockages within the rad! leaving the rad in situ and running the boiler as you powerflush,as the powerflush chemical works better when hot along with using a vibraclean to vibrate the rad the will get rid of any stubborn blockages within the rad.
Also using a infa red thermomter you can check temperature of rad to make sure rad is hot all over indicating the rad is free from debris,and there are water testers to make sure that the system water is as clean as your tap water.
Adding a magnaclean filter aswell as system protector(which needs to be topped up yearly) will reduce the chance of sludge ever building up in your system again.
It's a long drawn out process and will take a minimum of 5 hours from start to finish. But if done correctly you will see the results instantly and you will also be able to view the sludge which has left the system.

 

[newbie1]

average house boiler and 7 rads 300.00 max any more and they are greedy *******s

 

[ellis hill]

Thanks for the replies all. I should have clarified that the quote includes the fitting of a magnaclean valve in the system. Powerflush does seem to be least messy/time consuming option.

 

[moogwai]

average house boiler and 7 rads 300.00 max any more and they are greedy *******s

agreed,i'm actually cheaper than that!! and to supply and fit a magnaclean £130.

 

[Winston]

Power flushing can cause problems to on a old system.

 

[REDSAW]

to do a proper flush you take of the rads anyway and bi-flush them or spend a good time per rad n thermometer with a vibro, the powerflush is for the pipes you cant take out.

there are 3 ways to do a flush.
the right way.
the wrong way.
the best way.

and dont forget the extras on the price of the flush too, like new pump, trv's etc. or you defeat the object.

 

[WHPES]

Power flushing can cause problems to on a old system.

True in rare cases but you can usually guess if you're likely to have problems - look for rust on old radiators, evidence of weeping rad valves, other valves, pump valves etc.

 

[Dirty Fingers]

A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing. So many well-meaning people have an opinion on anything. So I'll add my two-penneth.

To give an accurate opinion though there a few things I would need to know. they are the questions I ask anyone before agreeing to do a powerflush for them (Based upon eight years of busy powerflushing experience and twelve years installing/trouble-shooting heating systems.)

1. What make, model and age of boiler do you have?
2. Who says there is a serious sludge problem?
3. Where do you live?
4. What size pipework goes into the radiator valves?
5. Is there anything else going on that is bothering you or might be important?
6. How many rads do you have?

And then, over the phone there would be ohter questions that follow on from that. How anyone can pontificate on Exactly what is the right solution for you without talking to you is beyond me.

Some people think that powerflushing is the best thing since sliced bread. Some think it's a big rip-off. Both are right. Not really, but there's no convincing them otherwise.

Personally, I know that powerflushing is great - for some problems.

Other times, it's just one thing available amongst other solutions and only experience can tell which is best.

Occasionally, it can do more damage than good.

So it's horses for courses.

Pricewise, any duffer can get themselves a machine, read the instructions, learn how to take a pump off without spraying water over the place and call themselves a powerflush expert. But, in their heart they know the score and (unless they are a sociopath) will not be able to charge what they would if they really were as good as they claimed to be.

For a professional job you have to pay a professional's price.

Ellis Hill, you don't mention how many rads you have (Q6), but if for example, you had 7 doubles with an old high-water content boiler with a cast-iron heat exchanger (Q1), with 15mm pipework into the rads (Q4) I could give you an estimate of what a professional power flush would cost you.

If you also told me that you live in a hard water area (Q3) so I knew that you needed a de-scale of the heat exchanger too (subject to answer to Q1) and then gave me as much information as possible (Q5) then I could give you a better idea.

After all of that, if it's apparent that nothing else is going on with your system, and that you really do need a power flush then I'd give you a firm price. In this example, £475.00 inc VAT. A magnaclean would be extra but if the job is done well most older boilers do not need them fitted. (And they are only designed to protect the boiler after all.)

I hope that helps.

If you have any questions specific to your situation please PM me and we can talk over the phone. Happy to offer advice whether you are in my area or not.

Best wishes

Ian Pritchard

 

[Rydell]

Re: To power flush or not to... hmmm...

average house boiler and 7 rads 300.00 max any more and they are greedy *******s

I think this is a little too cheap as I would normally charge £400.00 fitter and mate and chemicals... all adds up!

 

[WHPES]

The amount I charge depends mainly on the time taken rather than the size of the system. A 5 rad system I did recently took me all day as it was so fouled up. Chemicals account for only about £25-£30 of the total cost.

 

[hussy]

If you do decide to take the rads off and clean with a garden hose, tap the backs (the side that faces the wall when mounted) with a rubber mallet, use a towel between contact so not to mark the rads. This helps dislodge some of the harden build up residue. MIND - I said tap not whack.
best to replace all your rad valves too if your system that bunged up, or at least check the valves.
hope that is useful.

then do a full clean with a chemical cleaner, double dosage if required and run with the heating on (Read manufactures guidelines on times) then rinse. do not forget the inhibitor.

 

[Mbear]

Is it just one rad that's choked up or more?

If it's only one rad then just replace it, if it's all the rads and boiler then powerflush is IMO.

 

[tackleburger]

power flushing is a nonsense if it is that bad change the radiators and flush the pipework & boiler with the hose/X400 nice you valves and you will be fine. hitting radiators with a vibraclean says it all they may be corroded inside once it has started change them you will have to at somepoint anyway. If you have any kind of circulation at the moment put in Sentinal x400 1 litre is enough for ten rads but sticking two in if it is bad can't do any harm you can run it for upto 4 weeks. Then drain down and flush with clean water adding the appropriate amount of inhibitor. It may improve the situation significantly and buy you time to bet the radiators swapped out. Sorted loads out like this.

 

[easyt]

About 10 years ago I had a new (non condensing) oil boiler fitted. The company wanted to powerflush as they said that the manufacturer would not honour the guarantee without. As the existing pipes are buried in a concrete floor or screed for 35yrs and I did not know if they had been properly protected and was happy with the way the previous system operated I refused. Radiators were removed and flushed. 10 years later and no problems. I have since heard horror stories of the result of powerflushing (from the same company) in similar situations.

 

[Stuthewarrior]

A powerflush is the way to go that will sort out the problems as they say you get what you pay for . I would rather pay for a job done the right way that someone who will do the job for half price .

 

[Blackcatgas]

eithr one works untill 5 years ago no one had heard of powerflush and we managed then
machine flush is less disruptive

Good point Steve, also a perfect cop out for boiler mfrs not to fix somthing under warrenty.

 

[Spudhater]

Most Manafctures MI`s , if not all, state that the "System must be clean" and not "Power Flushed"

Change the rads if they are old, they will be less efficient anyway...look a lot nicer..

 

[Rodreguez]

1 off the blokes i work with used to work for BG bout 20 years ago. there was a bloke at BG taken to court because he left acid in a system for a week because of magnetite build up. Little did he know scale was the only thing holding the coil of the cylinder together.That coupled with the F&E tank fitted lower than the cold water storage cistern. The lady washed her child in the bath and he covered burns to the whole of his body, lost most his skin and was scarred for life.

Jus shows what can catch you out.

 

[easyt]

Excuse my ignorance. What is a 'F and E' tank ??

 

[shaunhighcock]

powerflushing is the way to go!! and with a magnaclean would keep the system clean.... they are a marvellous invention. well worth the money in the long run

 

[easyt]

Excuse my ignorance. What is a 'F and E' tank ??

Ahh OK. Feed and Expansion tank. Sorry.

 

[dublin plumber]

hi what chemicals do you use , for cleaning as some are hard and others when you open the bottle look harmless , i once knew a guy who got a complaint from a customer that the chemical he used wrecked the boiler he duly opened a bottle of the same stuff inhibitor and drank a drop out of it , mind you i dont think i would try the Fernox 40 !!