To experienced plumbers

[mad]

I am currently looking at coming into the plumbing trade, who did you do your training with? What was the cost? What are the best plumbing qulaifications to have to become employable? I woulg also like to become gas safe registered as wel, if i complete and NVQ level 3 in plumbing will i have to then go on to do a full gas safe course or would i be able to say i have experience in it? When doing your plumbing what electrics are involved with your training, do you obtain part p or 17th edition or anything like that?
If anyone could help then it would be much appreciated as don't want to spend thousands on a course if it then turns out to be irrelevant!
Thank you
Mad

 

[Guest123]

Here we go again.

Sorry for that comment pal, but this keeps cropping up time and time again. One thing I would advise you is that you are learning to run before you can crawl. Learn and qualify in plumbing first before you even consider gas and electrics. Try to get a proper apprenticeship and qualifications through a college and on the job experience. Forget the promises of high earnings made by those fast track courses as it will take years before you even earn a decent wage. Sitting looking at text books will not give you the skills to carry out a trade safely and to a high standard.

 

[WaterTight]

Nothing wrong with having a vision or a plan and no harm in knowing what it takes to go the whole distance. Afterall it makes sense that he'd want to find out what is involved in getting to the gas quals before deciding the plumbing quals are worth bothering with if his ultimate aim is to become a full qualified all-rounder. But I do agree that every bit as important as finding out all those things is fully appreciating how long it takes to get anywhere or earn anything - even in normal times, let alone given current levels of competition and the current economic climate.

 

[nick/matt1]

I concur. learn to walk before you run. at least with plumbing you dont have to requalify every five years...yet...

 

[Guest123]

Define "Fully Qualified All Rounder". I've been in this game since 1982 and I have a excellent reputation, I know my daily plumbing work inside out, but even now I learn something new every day. The thought of all these fast track course guys becoming qualified in such a short time in gas scares the hell out of me. Some of the ones I know have worked in banks, offices etc. and had absolutely no experience in the building industry or even diy let alone gas.

I was making the point that it is better to become FULLY COMPETENT in one field i.e plumbing before tackling gas and electrics. Nothing wrong in having aspirations for the future but take it carefully and at one step at a time and the guy will become a good tradesman. The old saying "Less haste, more speed" is a good example here.

 

[sparra1100]

the hardest part is getting anyone to give you a job or training with no previous experience and you wont earn 30.000 to 60,000 like the adverts say am gas safe and lucky to get 15,000 as for the gas thats a few yrs away unless you do fast track and even then youll need a portfollio and that will take 18 months providing anyone will help you, sorry to be gloomy but thats how it is, plus 10,000 in tools,van ,insurance etc av been at this 8 or 9 yrs and not out the woods yet theres loads on here asking for help with very few takers

 

[quality]

If you consider your screen name i.e. mad that is what you would be to trying to get an NVQ in plumbing and then your gas registration

Unless you already have employment with a gas registered company who will invest money to put you through training etc.
You have not got a cat in hells chance.

if you are employed then the best of luck too ya. If not you have no chance

This may seem harsh but this is reality

 

[nick/matt1]

sad but true...i used to hold full gas qualifications, but now there are so many categories instead of just 16, that i cant afford to requailfy, and so stick to domestic, although if the right contract came along i,d retrain in a flash

 

[Guest123]

For some reason, plumbing is seen by too many coming from other industries as some type of utopia, offering easy to come by high earnings, and an easy working life when the harsh reality is quite different.

Don't get me wrong, I'll always give encouragement and freely give advice to anyone that wishes to pursue a career in this industry, but unlike the false promises made by these courses, I will never lie to them.

 

[nick/matt1]

too much govt hype and by flooding the market with short course wonders, price work goes down. one way of keeping the masses in their place imho

 

[jase158]

love it, guy asks for what is involved to make an informed decision and he gets nothing but negative.
He has never mentioned fast track or age, this could be a 16 year old who is wanting to go through college, just wondered if he should follow plumbing as a career move.

Not having a go at anybody but we all do it, jump to conclusions, simply because we have so many people on here who say, I have just signed up to a training centre please can somebody give me more info about plumbing, well you have already paid your money so its too late.

However this guy has come to ask for others opinions before making a decision, good on you mate.

 

[WaterTight]

Well he mentioned spending thousands on a course so it's pointing towards fast-track. But I do agree these type of threads do tend to make this board a little soap-operatic. But hey, it's half the fun.

 

[jase158]

training needed,
1-2 years Technical certificate and NVQ level 2- you can now work as a plumber and do basic wet plumbing
1-2 years Technical certificate and NVQ level 3- you can now work as a teacher, advanced plumber and I think unvented systems.
1 Year- Gas ACS training, you can now work on gas.
1 year- 17th edition/ part P, you can now work on electrics.

You will then need MCS training for renewable technology as this is coming in and will broaden your knowledge and work prospects and Oil training if you live near a lot of villages as again this will broaden your horizons.

At this point you will be fully trained.

If you can get an employer you are very lucky.

There are training centres which offer this all in a lot less time, however you will not be very employable after as many older plumbers are very against training centres and this will involve you finding the work, so going self employed without the right amount of knowledge.

 

[nick/matt1]

be prepared for the long haul. and just be good at what u do. Scholarships and such can help you get that sponsorship.

 

[dontknowitall]

Here's a customer I've just had. The job went wrong, unfortunately.

Phone call saying water's been coming through the ceiling. How much do you charge for removing tiles, removing bath, re-fitting bath and re-tiling? I turned up and said it would be near enough a week but why don't I spend half a day making things waterproof. Would be much cheaper and quicker. Also would she like me to make bath waste water tight (not spotted by her)? And how's about the hot water tap to the bath (again not spotted)? (I reckoned this was a DIY job - just surprised the shower supply wasn't leaking.)

Great idea.

Drove 20 minutes to job. Spent an hour with silicone and sorting out bath waste but tap fitting was dry. Drove back home.

Early afternoon drove 20 minutes to the house after silicone had had a chance to dry. Found hot tap dripping and tiny hole in corner of bath still dripping. Fixed both. (Fibre washer in plastic plumbing fitting - NEVER AGAIN!!!!)

Fiddled with shower screen to try and stop it seaping. Just before I left, checked the waste and bath tap - all dry as a bone.

Total of around 4 hours.

Was phoned yesterday evening. Explained I couldn't sort out shower screen but "Here's a website" if you feel a new seal might help or I can fit a new screen. Alternatively just see how things go. Everyone happy and I asked for £100 which was agreed.

Phone call this evening - big leak from the bath tap - through ceiling - not happy - neighbour changed fitting ...

Told her I wouldn't be invoicing.

I've "lost" four hours of time, diesel (3 trips - first to view the job) plus time on the phone, a washer, silicone, kitchen towel and gained a leaky reputation from that customer.

The point I'm making is it isn't just the cost of the course, van, insurance and so on but sometimes jobs just go wrong. That harms your reputation and you've got to work harder to improve. There aren't enough customers at the moment to gain that good reputation.

There are loads of threads on starting up (I've posted on many and much more positively that this post) so I'd have a gander there - if you go for it, good luck!!! You'll definitely need it. Plumbing's in a treacherous condition at the moment (and not just because of my leak).

 

[Resolute]

Sorry to hear about your job DKIA. Bet you wish you ripped out and refitted!

 

[dontknowitall]

Sorry to hear about your job DKIA. Bet you wish you ripped out and refitted!

Yes, and no. Trouble is if that job turned up tomorrow I'd do and behave exactly the same (except I'd change the plastic fitting for a proper one) - big lesson learned there!

 

[quality]

It is not the goverment hype but the sale of short courses to fast track The gov are to blame in part also, but not for crap training.
Does anyone think that the goverment will state that they were at fault in ruining the apprentice work / employment scheme back in the early eighties.
I think not , I was pretty lucky I had served my time got a good job with a good wage then all of a sudden £29.50 on YTS this was the start of the decline

 

[AWheating]

i did
2 years NVQ level 2 at Dudley College
2 years NVQ level 3 at Stourbridge college including ACOPS, Oil and Unvented

the best qualifications you can take to a job interview is experience (and a willing to work for peanuts it seams at the moment)

 

[quality]

I may stress that that is was £29.50 per week

 

[royston]

YTS yeah i remember that well !

 

[sparra1100]

not trying to put anyone off ,just you need to go into it with your eyes open ive worked today from 7.30 to 7.30 hard graft every time done something plaster came off the wall, nightmare hence the gloomy post its not all sweatness and light its hard graft an experience to deal with it wen things happen, that you dont get taught in collage

 

[REDSAW]

i did
2 years NVQ level 2 at Dudley College
2 years NVQ level 3 at Stourbridge college including ACOPS, Oil and Unvented

the best qualifications you can take to a job interview is experience (and a willing to work for peanuts it seams at the moment)

THAT MAKES 2 OF US THEN!.

I DID MY NVQ AT DUDLEY:bucktooth:


O.P. QUOTE
'don't want to spend thousands on a course if it then turns out to be irrelevant!'

THAT ONE MAY BE HARD TO DODGE.

 

[mad]

To everyone who has kindly replied to my question, its starting to become more clear as to which course to do, i was already looking into NVQ foundation and then Level 3 in advanced and i think you guys hav defo steered me in the right direction, I would rather do the nvq n gain al th knowledge rather than fast track it n get onto a job n then realise i'm way outta my depth. I understand that nothin in life is for free and that workin hard is part and parcel for tryin to build up a good rep even if its 7 days a week 6am-9pm. Hard work i am not afraid of, i currently work a week days/ week nights, never get to c my mrs or kids cos they'r 180 miles away n spend alot of time over in hotter climates wiv nothing but desert.
I have already got an NVQ level 3 in aeronautical engineering and hav been workin on mulitiple aircraft systems on th different aircraft since i was 18. Moving my techinal knowledge across to the plumbing trade seemed the more sensible idea for me, I need to get on th right course to do all th correct theory that will help me do this.
Again thank u to every1 who replied to my question, seems its gonna be a long uphill battle but i think wil be worth it if i can spend more time wiv the mre n kids.

 

[hasbean]

Hi .As somebody many years ago spent five years as apprentice plumber, 2 more years as a improver, and the next 47 years learning every day, how do these guys going on short courses know much, you can tell just by the questions they ask, in my day a gas fitter was just that, with a wealth of knowledge. I know this seems to old hat to most of you young people, but would you want some bloke with a book in one hand fixing a gas boiler I don't. You can tell by the cockup with condensing boilers, with the condense run to outside into the frost, anybody with some knowledge of water knows it freezes, our first boilers when they first came out we run 2" plastic, 22mm copper inside lagged, never had trouble.

 

[nick/matt1]

with a seven year apprenticeship, two years at southampton university and several acs renewals under my belt, its not experience most outfits want today, its just get in and get out. clients want the quality, but arent prepared to pay the price. In fact a large majority are now looking deliberately how not to pay at all....

 

[Deleted member 25704]

MAD

Don't rush into the NVQs, given your engineering background. You sound like your in a good position to apply to existing firms for training, and entry to gas through ACS and the relevant category status. Anyone taking you on for NVQ2 would be doing you a dis-service.

If existing firms are not available, then the new QCF should allow you to buy the relevant bits of training you want.

This said, there has been a cultural change over the last few years and its stunning - it has become common sense that going to college is the way to learn a trade. Not-quite in my own experience.

Ask installers if their college knowledge related to what they did at work, and they will probably reply - it did at level 3 - hence, don't bother with NVQ2, and go straight to level 3 - I would argue this one - they can't stop you from buying the courses you want, if they do, then write to the college principle - he won't want to turn anyone away.

Both College and Universities will try to sell you stuff you don't need, so its the name of the game.

I would even suggest not bothering with qualifications at all, and just try to concentrate on getting work experience first.

You also need to do some serious research if you want to come into this trade...everyone seems very confident that they can make it, they have the edge....well you don't need to be great to make it, just cheap or work for free. Public not interested these days, cheapest gets the job.

Another idea would be train in renewables at level 4 - you can progress to this with your existing quals, and become a manager of those with NVQ2 and 3 - let them do the work, and just manage the business. The renewables sector is all about management, and trades on minimum wage.

 

[Guest123]

Mad, well done for taking heed of the advice here on what is becomig a very "touchy" subject on this forum. With your background in aeronotics, I think that if you take your time and become proficient at plumbing first then progress onto gas etc you will make a very good plumber.

Best of luck in your endeavour and welcome to the trade.

 

[sparra1100]

good luck mate and if ye need owt or any advice just get in touch,just be careful wat you sign up for

 

[jase158]

Hi .As somebody many years ago spent five years as apprentice plumber, 2 more years as a improver, and the next 47 years learning every day, how do these guys going on short courses know much, you can tell just by the questions they ask, in my day a gas fitter was just that, with a wealth of knowledge. I know this seems to old hat to most of you young people, but would you want some bloke with a book in one hand fixing a gas boiler I don't. You can tell by the cockup with condensing boilers, with the condense run to outside into the frost, anybody with some knowledge of water knows it freezes, our first boilers when they first came out we run 2" plastic, 22mm copper inside lagged, never had trouble.

agree with most of what you say, apart from, the bloke i learnt with, put a condense pipe outside, he has been doing it for 20-30 years. and didnt insulate it, admitedly he did give me some insulation when it froze and i learnt something by going and defrosting it, but not neccesarily something you think about in this country, its not like we have snow and minus 7 temperatures every year, more like every 20 years.