Discuss Steam cabin, shower pump and 15mm pipework woes in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

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niallcook

Hi all. Am getting conflicting advice from pump manufacturers so thought I would test the experience of the people who do this for a living.

I am installing a steam shower cabin which requires a hot and cold supply of between 2 and 3 bar and a flow rate of at least 7.5 litres/minute. Per the manufacturer's instructions, I'm planning to feed the steam generator separately from the mains cold so the pump will just be serving the main shower assembly (hand shower, monsoon overhead shower and 6 body jets). The pump will be positioned around 2.5m below the header tank and about 0.5m below the bottom of the hot water cylinder (and 2m below the top of the shower cabin).

I already have a dedicated cold feed from the header tank from the previous shower (in 15mm) and can connect into the hot feed as it enters the bathroom (15mm or 22mm) and before it branches off to the bath and two basins. I have 2 x 15mm pipes running under the floorboards from the pump location to the shower (about 2.5 metres away).

The problem I have is that the pumps I'm being recommended have 22mm connections whereas most of my pipework on both inlet and outlet side is 15mm.

Is it acceptable to take the pipework up from 15mm to 22mm before the pump inlet, and then back down from 22mm to 15mm on the outlet side?

Or would it be better to try and find a pump with 15mm connections? If so, can anyone recommend one for my purposes?

If I can at all help it, I'd rather not have to redo all the pipework in 22mm.

Thanks.
 
I was afraid you might say that. So is a dedicated 15mm feed from the header tank a complete no-no then? What about the outlet side? It's going to have to go to 15mm at some point as that's what the steam cabin requires. Thanks.
 
Its up to you, but its a MINIMUM of 7.5l/m so I would take 22mm as far as possible
 
Before I go working out how to change all the pipework, what do people think about using a Stuart Turner Showermate U2.6 Twin Universal pump in this situation? Should provide adequate pressure and connects to 15mm inlets/outlets, no?

Any pitfalls to consider? If it's of any help, the old thermostatic mixer valve that both the hot and cold supplies connected to was pretty powerful (without a pump).
 
One final thought having just been and checked all pipework. As I have a 22mm feed from the hot and can tee off before it goes on to the bath and basins, and a 22mm cold mains running past the shower location, could I just pump the hot and then put the pumped hot and mains cold into a pressure equalising valve that then feeds the shower? Would avoid having to re-do the existing 15mm cold feed in 22mm.
 
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So I cannot pump a 22mm hot feed, even if it's the first branch off the pipework that comes direct from the HWC?
 
OK, so following advice here I'm now looking at the least resistance (for me and the water) method of providing dedicated 22mm supplies to a pump suitable for my needs (Salamander recommend their ESP 100 CPV Twin and ST recommend their Monsoon Universal 3 bar twin).

The current pipework is a bit like this:

Untitled.jpg

The 15mm cold on the left is the existing dedicated feed to the previous shower. The top one of the two horizontal hot runs feeds a basin downstairs and the other feeds the bathroom where the new shower will be (including the bath and basin, before running downstairs to the kitchen sink). The CWST is pretty much directly above this.

I think I have two options for siting the pump: either with the HWC (although for space reasons it cannot go on the floor, so would end up above the top of the HWC; or in the bathroom where the shower will be (about 4 metres away, and lower than the bottom of the HWC, properly enclosed and safely connected by an electrician, etc.).

In both cases, I understand that I would need an Essex flange cutting into the HWC to provide the dedicated hot for the pump. I will also need to replace some (and perhaps all) of the existing 15mm CWST feed with 22mm. I can also take the bath, basin and kitchen hot supply off the top horizontal feed, essential turning the lower feed into a dedicated feed for the shower (which already runs into the position I want it). Here's my thinking:

Pump in HWC cupboard:

Untitled.jpg

Pump in bathroom:

Untitled.jpg

So the question is where the best place for the pump is. Specifically:

1. If I put it in with the HWC and put an anti-gravity loop on with the Essex flange, running 22mm to the inlets of the pump, can I then use the existing 15mm cold on the outlet side from pump to shower?

2. Are there any particular 'gotchas' when siting a pump above the HWC? It would still be below the CWST.

3. Do these diagrams look right?

For me, it's the trade off between having to replace the full run of 15mm cold with 22mm and have the pump further away from the supply, and the additional work involved when siting the pump above the HWC.

Any advice, comments, questions, etc. very welcome.
 
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