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Solder ring fittings

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum' started by Bogart, Aug 9, 2017.

Discuss Solder ring fittings in the Plumbing Forum area at UKPlumbersForums.co.uk.

  1. Bogart

    Bogart Member

    Not had need to do any solder ring fittings for a few years now. Recently have done a couple of lots last today where I, like previous attempt, could not get a ring of solder to appear. My technique is the same. The joints do not leak but I do like to see the solder ring as it gives me confidence in its integrity. Both sets of fittings are the same batch couyld they ebe faulty or has there been any change? though I doubt that. Oh by the way am using same gas torch as in previous years.
     
  2. townfanjon

    townfanjon Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    You should always see the solder ring pal , are you heating them long enough ?
     
  3. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Some don't normally the cheap ones where there isn't quite enough to see it quick dab of solder soon sorts it right out
     
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  4. Best

    Best Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    When they changed the solder from leaded to unleaded, it certainly made the solder ring Yorkshire type fittings different to solder.
    I would suggest you put flux on the edge of fitting as you solder and use gentle heat and you should see a ring of solder appearing.
    Add a little solder, with the solder wire end dipped in flux and that proves solder is melting and flowing
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. king of pipes

    king of pipes Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Burnish the end of the pipe with a cleaning pad only apply the flux to the pipe not inside the fitting use sparingly insert the pipe into the fitting apply a moderate heat with your blow torch untill you see the solder run apply a small amount of lead free solder if needed. Cheers kop
     
  6. Bogart

    Bogart Member

    Not doing anything different to in the past. Oh and by the way are you going to Palace saturday?UTT
     
  7. Bogart

    Bogart Member

    The fittings are from a reputable source and I do put a dab of flux on the pipe, and the fitting maybe just an odd batch. Will get some others and have try with those.
     
  8. townfanjon

    townfanjon Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Not sure on your word dab lol , put a light smear of flux all the way around the pipe .

    Palace , nah ! I wouldnt mind but London away trips just take too long , my god I cant wait for this season pal .
     
  9. Best

    Best Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    Too much heat usually applied IMO and this can tarnish the pipe, preventing the solder coming out.
    The Surefire type torches are very powerful and more heat than the 15mm and 22mm fittings need.
    Less heat and more flux.
     
  10. Matchless.plumb

    Matchless.plumb Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    I am soldering exactly in the same technique and I hardly see my solder :) it always looks like I will have leak but due to the capillary effect it sucks all the solder in and makes a proper neat seal.
     
  11. Chuck

    Chuck Active Member

    A traditional plumber's solder (70/30 Pb/Sn) melts in the range 185-250°C and has a working range of 240-330°C. A lead-free plumber's solder (99.3Sn/0.7Cu) melts at 227°C and has a working range of 300-450°C

    So, if your previous technique was honed for 70/30 and in the lower end of the working range you will need a bit more heat (but don't go mad) with the lead-free fittings. Buy a few extra fittings and make up and pressure test some test joints.

    Another possibility is that lead-free solders have a higher surface tension than traditional solders and hence form a less visible fillet, which could be the phenomenon you are seeing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
  12. Best

    Best Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    If you want to experiment with soldering technique, then use end feed fittings. Cheaper and better.
    For heating system pipework, you could use leaded solder and this will also obviously be cheaper and with the advantage of easier to do
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Matchless.plumb

    Matchless.plumb Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!


    I have already done it many times to perfect my soldering. I was always unsure if I would have some leaks afterwards. I only use lead free solder can't work with leaded solder.
     
  14. Matchless.plumb

    Matchless.plumb Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    That's what I only use I don't like much Yorkshire fittings.
     
  15. Chuck

    Chuck Active Member

    Yeah, sorry, I replied to the wrong post and clicked 'post' accidentally before finishing editing it.

    I was trying to reply to Boggart's original post. For some reason the forum doesn't 'thread' posts for me so I find it easy to get confused and end up replying to the wrong person. Is this just me?
     
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  16. Stigster

    Stigster Plumber

    Adding solder to a Yorkshire fitting surely defeats the purpose of using ISR fittings? I see people saying they always add solder to their Yorkshire for "Belt and Braces." Unless I'm forced to use some cheap solder ring fittings I'll always use end feed. If a person is end feeding their solder ring fittings why not save some money and just use end feed? Always baffles me a bit.
     
  17. Bogart

    Bogart Member

    Yes does seem odd that a fitting is designed so you need no extra solder then get recomedations to end feed it as well.:)
     
  18. Ant Parkes

    Ant Parkes Plumber

    Like Matchless.plumb, I can't work with leaded solder. Find lead free much easier to get that one touch soldering technique. Touch the back, hold the heat and see a tiny line of solder in the fitting.

    My old man used to have a go, "they aren't soldered" but now loves 'em. haha.

    I'd save my money tbf and just go end-feed all day every day.
     
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  19. Best

    Best Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    I am surprised anyone has difficulty with using leaded solder.
    It stays melted longer (as needs less heat to melt).
    The Yorkshire type fittings with solder ring inside them are all now unleaded obviously, but I find they can be a little crudely made and also dirty and glazed inside. The groove in them that holds the solder ring, can stop the capillary action on lower vertical joints. But adding solder is proof the joint is properly soldering and will add the extra solder the joint probably needs.
    Yorkshire fittings are handy to solder in awkward places where you can just heat the fitting.
    The solder tends to flow better with end feed fittings though.
     
  20. Matchless.plumb

    Matchless.plumb Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    I havent got difficulties to use leaded solder but I prefer using unleaded. I am just used to unleaded for years. I can feel the difference when using leaded solder.
    It's just my preference that's all it is. I guess Yorkshire fittings are ideal when having an issue with stopping the water.
     
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  21. Best

    Best Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    I think it is just as you say, whatever you are used to.
    I actually find unleaded soldering an entirely different job to using leaded and more difficult.
    Rarely soldering many joints nowadays, so that doesn't help me.
     
  22. Matchless.plumb

    Matchless.plumb Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    That's what it is Gary, it's just the matter of getting used to it. But, i am trying now to get off the soldering and use more crimping.
     
  23. quality

    quality Plumber GSR

    Leaded and unleaded are different as lead seems wetter than lead free, we do a lot of brazing and its similar between copper phosphorus and silver brazing. Its simply down to the temperature (and method of course)
     
  24. YorkshireDave

    YorkshireDave Active Member

    Personally (stands by for getting ragged...) I only ever use SR fittings where i have a choice. My technique is to clean pipe, clean inside of fitting, EVEN WHEN BRAND NEW, flux pipe only and heat gently. Just after flux starts bubbling solder flows and gives nice neat ring.
     
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  25. Best

    Best Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    Nothing wrong with that. I used Yorkshire fittings only for most years I have worked. They are an exellent fitting, despite my earlier slight criticisms of them.
    I tend to use end feed now, but still mostly use Yorkshire for 15mm fittings.
    They do need well cleaned.
     
  26. Ric2013

    Ric2013 Plumber Top Contributor!!

    Glad it's not just me that has had this problem. And, yes, I tend to find I do a neater job with lead-free too.
    Two known defects with my soldering technique are using too little flux and too little heat. With less flux you get less running and with less heat you often cook the fitting/ burn the flux before the solder starts to run. Which could be what you are doing. I've found that a nearly empty gas can gives less heat for a similar size flame...?
    Possibly as a result of my shoddy technique, my preference in fluxes is (in order): Fluxite, Yorkshire Flux, Everflux, LaCo.
     
  27. Matchless.plumb

    Matchless.plumb Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    Never used fluxite or Yorkshire flux. It seems that the fluxite is good quality flux. Perhaps I will give that a go next time.

    However, I think there is not a big difference in finishing joints when using flux. It is more down to the plumber who is soldering. I definitely solder slickly different when having my german flux Flussmittel Weichlot-Paste Fitting-Lötpaste 250 g Lötfitting Kupferrohr Kupfer | eBay
     
  28. Ric2013

    Ric2013 Plumber Top Contributor!!

    Fluxite comes into its own when there is any possibility of water running into the joint because it isn't water based so it doesn't wash away when a small quantity runs down the pipe you were sure was fully drained. I also left some on a pipe for five days to see the effect. Unlike Laco and Everflux, it didn't dry, but neither was there any green staining.

    I don't find the type of flux makes much difference to the finish, agreed.
     
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  29. Ric2013

    Ric2013 Plumber Top Contributor!!

    What's the advantage of that German flux?
     
  30. Matchless.plumb

    Matchless.plumb Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    I think there isn't much advantage, the only thing which is great when water runs onto the paste it doesn't get washed away. You also need very little paste on the copper pipe to get a great nice silver ring. I haven't used it now for more than 5 years and I think it could have changed in quality. I am quite sure if it's heated it doesn't leave running stains, but don't want to promise. I guess it is with everything. If you get used to one thing you don't like changing things. I personally love this product it's definitely worth for soldering.

    What's your experience with fluxite ?
     
  31. Best

    Best Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    Fluxite is very similar to Yorkshire flux and they are both 'grease' based, although it is not actually grease.
    Advantages are it isn't water based, isn't highly corrosive, so won't do much harm to interior or exterior of pipe is left uncleaned.
    It helps the solder run well because Fluxite flows really well.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  32. Ric2013

    Ric2013 Plumber Top Contributor!!

    Fluxite. It's the most effective flux known, according to the tin, and I can't disagree.

    At college there was an old tin with missing lid and a nail stuck in the flux. It had gone thick, like earwax and I tried it. It worked well and, at college, became 'my' tin of flux (they actually offered it to me in the end).

    I had a tub of LaCo I was using for my own work that was running low and I decided to get some Fluxite too. It's still thick, but not as thick as the colleg tub. I still haven't finished the LaCo because I much prefer the Fluxite. If you use very little, you can get a finish where the solder is almost invisible and doesn't run out of the joint at all, if you've the time.

    I'd like to try Templars Telux too.
     
  33. Best

    Best Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    I think your preferences in fluxes are really good. I would probably say same, and have the LaCo because it is supposed to be non toxic.
    However, I wouldn't use the Everflux. Despite it being a lot of plumbers preference, I know it is acid based and highly corrosive, so I will never want to use it
     
  34. Ric2013

    Ric2013 Plumber Top Contributor!!

    I find it odd that corrosive fluxes can be used on gas runs, apparently.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  35. Matchless.plumb

    Matchless.plumb Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    I somehow use everflux. I was thinking it does a good job. But, as mentioned I will try fluxite perhaps it will be great then I will change my flux :)
     
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