Rich buggers paying late

[Pickwickpick]

Excuse the rant that's about to follow, absolutely fuming and could do with a vent!

Finished a bathroom 2nd fix in small ensuite for a uni lecturer last Friday, he was meant to pay on completion but when it came to settle up insisted on waiting through till Monday in case there were any snagging issues. Should have put my foot down but wasn't desperate for the cash at the time and not the best with confrontation so begrudgingly agreed.

Can't get through to him on the Monday, then on Tuesday get hold of him and all is good with the work but he's "had a long day at work" so will do the transfer Wednesday morning, hardly back breaking work to do an online transfer! Then he also informed me that he'll have to split the transfer over two days as he has a limit on his daily online transfers (is this even a thing? never heard of it before)

£500 did come through on Wednesday morning which at least put my mind to rest, but nothing yesterday. Drop him a txt this morning and he replies that: it was his birthday yesterday and he forgot due to "too many alcohol infusions" (****!) and he'll do it straight away. Just got back an checked my online banking and nothing has come through.

Wouldn't mind but the guy is absolutely loaded, I never get treatment like this off my customers that are not loaded, really really annoys me, he'd be fuming if his uni didn't pay him on time!

Anyway sorry for the rant, one issue with being a sole trader is the missus is sick and tiered of my work related ranting!

 

[Scott_D]

Getting paid shouldnt be the hardest part of the job!

 

[Pickwickpick]

Getting paid shouldnt be the hardest part of the job!

So true, its the one thing that I really hate about working for myself.

 

[Best]

Completely ridiculous, but we are at the customers mercy once we complete their job.
If you get angry and make a criticising comment, they could just delay longer.

I hate the fact that most customers work for a company and therefore get paid on every pay day, plus holidays etc and without overheads or materials to buy as part of their job, yet expect us to wait and beg for payments.

Got to face it we are often seen as modern slaves and have to wait on our hard earned money and payment for materials that we bought, just like a dog waiting on its food.

 

[Pickwickpick]

Yep you can't win they ultimately have you over barrel of a gun once we've finished the work. I am thinking of getting a card reader though as the 'I'll do a bank transfer for you' that then takes days to weeks to come through is becoming a recurring theme!

Its amazing how so many people have a complete inability to put themselves in others shoes and show any compassion. If the salaried customers paying late had to deal with half that level of crap that we do they would be getting courts or tribunals involved!

 

[Best]

And do you also find that many of those customers will advise you how you should run your business better?

Plenty of ‘experts’ on self employed businesses out there, but they never have experience of it

 

[Pickwickpick]

And do you also find that many of those customers will advise you how you should run your business better?

Plenty of ‘experts’ on self employed businesses out there, but they never have experience of it

Haha yes, really does make you want to smash your head against a wall some time!

 

[Best]

You have to get into the mindset of some customers, -
In their eyes,
They have done you a favour by giving you the privilege of their custom,
You will be earning a small fortune for their job,
The work isn’t really too difficult or stressful to do, compared to their 9-5 job.
You are not in educated profession, unlike theirs.
They are busy people and you will just have to work around their busy schedule, including when they get around to paying you

 

[SimonG]

Terms and conditions. Payment immediately on completion by bank transfer. Late payments +5% and administration charge. 1 day late and they get a phone call. "Hate to charge you 5% +£45.00 for an oversight, but if not in the account by 5pm then I will have no alternative but to issue a new invoice for the new amount. Should this remain unpaid then no further reminder will be issued and will be directed to a third party for collection. Any charges arising from the collection activity will of course be payable by yourself. Best regards etc etc etc.

 

[Pickwickpick]

Terms and conditions. Payment immediately on completion by bank transfer. Late payments +5% and administration charge. 1 day late and they get a phone call. "Hate to charge you 5% +£45.00 for an oversight, but if not in the account by 5pm then I will have no alternative but to issue a new invoice for the new amount. Should this remain unpaid then no further reminder will be issued and will be directed to a third party for collection. Any charges arising from the collection activity will of course be payable by yourself. Best regards etc etc etc.

Do you find that generally works? Should probably add something along those lines into my t&c, also probably need to be a bit less lenient and understanding!

 

[king of pipes]

I try and get stage payments as the job progresses that way it doesn't hurt so much when the customer starts messing with your hard earned , kop

 

[hammers4spanner]

I had this last year finished a bathroom and when I asked for the money he said he needs to see if any leaks first. Took about 5 weeks to get paid was fuming .
I have terms of payment but if you go down that route every time it can sully your name as they did pass my number on to others.
I also work on the assumption on that no one is rich or loaded now. The amount of houses I have turned up to with flash cars big house etc only to over hear a private convo.

' hes failed the boiler we have no money as we bought the car for 60 k'

To easy to max out on finance to look like you live like king bling.

 

[king of pipes]

Very hard to please aswell bud what ever you do they always push for that bit extra and get narked when you add extra costs . Kop

 

[hammers4spanner]

Very hard to please aswell bud what ever you do they always push for that bit extra and get narked when you add extra costs . Kop

That an interesting point as I'm also finding now that customers now think extras are in your price. I was doing a bathroom a while back and the stack became an issue. Customer just said move it to here so when I said it's about 280 extra he just looked bemused. Then quizzed it to death at the end

 

[Pickwickpick]

That an interesting point as I'm also finding now that customers now think extras are in your price. I was doing a bathroom a while back and the stack became an issue. Customer just said move it to here so when I said it's about 280 extra he just looked bemused. Then quizzed it to death at the end

Got caught out with that a couple of times in the past and ended up changing t&c so that any alterations are payable within 24h, not on completion.

 

[townfanjon]

couple of websites like this could help.
Check a customer.com
Rate my customer.com

We live in hope boys

 

[WaterTight]

I do mainly small jobs and so seem to avoid this I guess because most people will be able to pay a bill that's £75-£150 even if one or two of the bank transfer crowd take a few days. But I've still had the odd one that ended up with my making unannounced visits and banging on the door like a baliff. I guess the bigger the bill the bigger the risk of delaying tactics. So you bathroom and boiler bunch have my sympathy. But at least you can use T&C's whereas on small jobs it's not going to happen really. I'd have finished and packed up by the time they got as far as paragraph 6, sub section 11

 

[SimonG]

Do you find that generally works? Should probably add something along those lines into my t&c, also probably need to be a bit less lenient and understanding!

Oh yes. Definitely works.
Even better now though as I take a deposit that covers all materials and profit.

 

[Welder]

TBH, I simply cannot comprehend how this happens to anyone these days. There are literally endless posts about it and yet trades ignore them and carry on in the blind that it'll be okay...

The simply fact is it's downright bl00dy stupid NOT to have a formal contract with a customer. Yes, STUPID. We are not stupid so why does it continue? I know, I think, that it's the age old fear/embarrassment of talking money. Well get a grip. Let's put it this way. You work to keep your family safe and healthy and a roof over their head. Your embarrassment IS causing your family to suffer. So, who do you care about most? Your family or your embarrassment.

I know thats all very harsh, but there is no apology nor excuse for hurting the ones you love. I've been there, I've done it, I've realised I was being pathetic.

As I've shared with others, I've a contract anyone can have. Just DM me.

 

[SimonG]

TBH, I simply cannot comprehend how this happens to anyone these days. There are literally endless posts about it and yet trades ignore them and carry on in the blind that it'll be okay...

The simply fact is it's downright bl00dy stupid NOT to have a formal contract with a customer. Yes, STUPID. We are not stupid so why does it continue? I know, I think, that it's the age old fear/embarrassment of talking money. Well get a grip. Let's put it this way. You work to keep your family safe and healthy and a roof over their head. Your embarrassment IS causing your family to suffer. So, who do you care about most? Your family or your embarrassment.

I know thats all very harsh, but there is no apology nor excuse for hurting the ones you love. I've been there, I've done it, I've realised I was being pathetic.

As I've shared with others, I've a contract anyone can have. Just DM me.

I just get them to sign a copy of the estimate. Which is to be honest not good enough.
If you don't mind Dave. I'll PM my email over. Cheers.

 

[Scott_D]

Doesn’t make much difference if they have signed anything if they are just delaying payment til payday or what ever reason they have.
By the time you ask a few times and threaten court or debt collectors they will probably pay

 

[hammers4spanner]

Doesn’t make much difference if they have signed anything if they are just delaying payment til payday or what ever reason they have.
By the time you ask a few times and threaten court or debt collectors they will probably pay

Exactly this , I had one several weeks of delay by the time the process kicked in they paid .

 

[hammers4spanner]

You have to get into the mindset of some customers, -
In their eyes,
They have done you a favour by giving you the privilege of their custom,
You will be earning a small fortune for their job,
The work isn’t really too difficult or stressful to do, compared to their 9-5 job.
You are not in educated profession, unlike theirs.
They are busy people and you will just have to work around their busy schedule, including when they get around to paying you

Probably the most bang on post about the modern day customer.
Reminded me of a job I had done not so long ago , boiler repair in a pokey little kitchen. Crap everywhere left for me to move, had a time scale due to her only giving me an hour because this was an inconvenience to her through her work day.
Suddenly her tenant walks in wants her dinner . She shoved all my tools out the way ,kettle on food being prept completely in my way and utterly ignorant to what I was doing . She knocked my spanner off the worktop onto the tiled floor which cracked the tile.
The customer walked in and asked if I could leave for 15 mins while tenant done her dinner then moaned about the tile to me.
That is the sort of crap we have to put up with on regular basis now . People are usualy rude or ignorant and full of their self importance nowadays

 

[Welder]

Probably the most bang on post about the modern day customer.
...
That is the sort of crap we have to put up with on regular basis now . People are usualy rude or ignorant and full of their self importance nowadays

You know Hammers, your post really dismays me. Not because of its content but because it's so "bang on".

The narcissism (self importance) and sense of 'entitlement' of those below 50 is the principal reason I decided on having only 'older' customers because they were always more empathetic and considerate in general.

When on the tools I quickly discovered that some people were simply not worth working for - no matter what I thought I could charge. The negativity sucked the very life blood from you so, somehow, it always took a day or even two to recover. Eventually I learned to 'just say no' to them in the first place or, if they treated me as your example, start to pack up and just walk out or give them an ultimatum at the time. Let's face it, you'll never go back so it's no loss!

Unfortunately ALL self employed tradespeople feel imprisoned by ar5seholes. Fact is however we are NOT. We are imprisioned by our irrational fear of the unknown. MY release from that fear came when I walked out of a job and a neighbour stopped me and I explained in a huff that I'd had enough. Here response was, "In that case can you do a job for me?" She'd learned that people who rebelled were the people she liked!

What I'm trying to say here, is that if you don't feel right just bl00dy say so. You are entitled for all manner of reasons to air your views so just do it. You don't have to be rude. In your example, you might say, "Sorry, but for safety reasons you cannot start preparing food till I am finished. If you insist, then I'll shall stop work immediately." If they get shitty, you simply persist. "Okay Mrs pig, your choice. Me to finish this job or you cook. Please choose."

Just make sure you get paid for what you've done before you leave

One last thing. None of these scroats have ANY impact on your life or business. NONE will put DECENT people off. Only ar5eholes love an ar5ehole so you don't want 'em anyway.

VIVE LA REVOLUTION

 

[Harvest Fields]

I always find that if you set the rules from the beginning and stand your ground this relarely happens. Either that or I’m very lucky.

 

[Old Account]

I always find that if you set the rules from the beginning and stand your ground this relarely happens. Either that or I’m very lucky.

You must be very lucky though. I remember not long ago, I went out for a boiler breakdown. Before I entered the property I asked politely if he would like me to diagnose and perhaps solve the problem, he gave me the go ahead. I worked for an hour and half and found out that one of the pcb’s were faulty and needed replacing. I have given him 2 options either replacing a couple of parts due to some leaks and or go and change the 17year old boiler. He was like ok thank you for coming out. I obviously asked for my payment due to me working on the boiler. He went like, what you want me to pay for, you haven’t fixed the boiler and it’s still not working. And I tried explaining in order to fix the boiler I would need a part which can be bought the very next day. However, he always went back to his old lines and said, it was working 2 days ago and there was nothing wrong with it and you can see there is power to the boiler. Long story short he just didn’t understand the fact that the boiler was broken and doesn’t work until he would change some parts. In the end I drove 14miles for free and never got paid and that happened a couple of times. I haven’t found out yet how to deal with people or situations like this but I will get there eventually. That also causes frustration which may lead to bad mood which you will bring home and therefore having some bad atmosphere at home that’s all because of a **** who didn’t pay me or you.

 

[Harvest Fields]

You tell them that you have a call out charge that is payable even if the boiler need parts. Would you not charge for a service or LGSC if the boiler was AR or ID?

 

[Old Account]

You tell them that you have a call out charge that is payable even if the boiler need parts. Would you not charge for a service or LGSC if the boiler was AR or ID?

Trust me H. I did tell them that and many times in a very polite way but if he doesn’t even understand that things are made to break down than he won’t understand that I have a call out charge. What do you mean with the question could you explain me what lgsc means?

 

[Welder]

Then, tbh, I'm afraid YOU have to change...

There is no mileage in being soft. Before you get up from your seat you explain very politely during EVERY phone call that your call out charge is payable regardless of outcome. You ask a very specific question of, "Do you accept that?"
Make sure you install a call recording app so if they get shirty then you have the evidence.
To be honest, the ar5eholes always witter at that point anyway and send you a massive signal of intent. That was often the point id say, "Sorry, but I suggest you find someone else. " When they ask why, I'd say, "Our attitudes are incompatible" Meaning? You're a d1ck!

 

[Best]

I have had a few jobs where I needed to do work in a bathroom (toilet to fix, etc) and in middle of going in and out discovered the door closed and somebody in the shower.

Can’t stand the people who are anxious to get a job done, but insist I call at 5 or 6 in afternoon through traffic to price or do the job, just because they finish work then.
Also get a lot of the “I must have my job done” followed by “Tuesday mornings I alway like to go out for coffee, - so you will need to come in afternoon”
Must admit I now counter what a customer says is their preferred time by telling them my suitable times.

 

[Millsy 82]

You must be very lucky though. I remember not long ago, I went out for a boiler breakdown. Before I entered the property I asked politely if he would like me to diagnose and perhaps solve the problem, he gave me the go ahead. I worked for an hour and half and found out that one of the pcb’s were faulty and needed replacing. I have given him 2 options either replacing a couple of parts due to some leaks and or go and change the 17year old boiler. He was like ok thank you for coming out. I obviously asked for my payment due to me working on the boiler. He went like, what you want me to pay for, you haven’t fixed the boiler and it’s still not working. And I tried explaining in order to fix the boiler I would need a part which can be bought the very next day. However, he always went back to his old lines and said, it was working 2 days ago and there was nothing wrong with it and you can see there is power to the boiler. Long story short he just didn’t understand the fact that the boiler was broken and doesn’t work until he would change some parts. In the end I drove 14miles for free and never got paid and that happened a couple of times. I haven’t found out yet how to deal with people or situations like this but I will get there eventually. That also causes frustration which may lead to bad mood which you will bring home and therefore having some bad atmosphere at home that’s all because of a **** who didn’t pay me or you.

What I do is charge a diagnosis fee. I tell them clearly that I charge a fixed price for diagnosis then I will give a price for replacing parts etc and that generally has covered me. You do however always get that 1 person that doesn't want to pay and not a lot you can do before hand. Just try not to take it personally.

 

[Welder]

What I do is charge a diagnosis fee. I tell them clearly that I charge a fixed price for diagnosis then I will give a price for replacing parts etc and that generally has covered me. You do however always get that 1 person that doesn't want to pay and not a lot you can do before hand. Just try not to take it personally.

Excellent idea.

 

[Best]

What I do is charge a diagnosis fee. I tell them clearly that I charge a fixed price for diagnosis then I will give a price for replacing parts etc and that generally has covered me. You do however always get that 1 person that doesn't want to pay and not a lot you can do before hand. Just try not to take it personally.

So you could still get stung by a customer taking info that the boiler pcb is the fault and then just buying and replacing it themselves?
I remember a post on this forum a few years ago that the guy said he deliberately told a customer the wrong part was the fault on a gas boiler, which was wise as they later tried to fix it themselves.

 

[Harvest Fields]

But then you invoice them anyway.

 

[SimonG]

Had an estate agent phone. Could I look at a boiler and give them a price to fix.

I explained I could either go and fix it or go and look, give them an invoice for the diagnosis with an estimate to repair and then return once cleared funds were in my account to repair.

They couldn't get their heads around me wanting to charge for the diagnosis. I was going to go into full rant mode but just said I have plenty of good customers to not worry about bad ones and hung up.