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Scoots3567

Hi,Can anyone provide advice to me? My problem is this. Like many before me, I accidentally allowed my Rhino oil fired heating system to run dry. It's a combi and should heat both hot water and central heating. A friend kindly sorted the subsequent airlock problem with an Allen key, however since then, the boiler heats ONLY the central heating. I can leave it on all day, but no hot water. Not a drop. Not even lukewarm! Plus, the system seems to be using oil at the same rate as previously, so it's not as though it's stopped using the oil up. Can anyone suggest what the problem may be and (please please please!) how to fix it? I'm having to revert to using the electric immersion in the tank for my bairns' baths and THAT is not good for my pocket in the long run!Many thanks to you all,Scoots.
 
It sounds unconnected to the oil running dry to me, have a look for a small central heating tank it will be in the loft or in the airing cupboard. Have a look inside and it may be dry, if it is lift the float valve up and down a couple of times and it should start filling.

Look at that first and if it is not empty report back and will have another think>
 
I dont quite understand this one you say its a combi but you have a cylinder with an immersion!. I think a rhino is a rebadged Grant boiler but I stand to be corrected I will try and find a manual. If it is a grant there are a few things to check ie diverter valve etc but I need to know what boiler you have. Rhinos are peculiar to scotland.
 
Just checked on the website it is a rebadged Firebird by the look of it.If you let us know the exact model it could be the flow switch or the pump.
 
Hi, the boiler model is BHS 50-90. I hope this helps in figuring out what's gone wrong. As I say, I know nowt about boilers/central heating, but we were only told it was a combi, I can't say that for certain. Thanks guys.
 
Hi again. I've just Googled this make & model and found the following page: [DLMURL]http://www.londonheatingservices.co.uk/boiler/Firebird-Rhino-5090-Boilerhouse-NonCondensing-Oil-Conventional-Regular-Boiler.aspIn[/DLMURL] this description it says this boiler is for a medium size house, 2-3 bedrooms, up to 1200sq.ft. Our house is 6 bedrooms (bungalow) and 1700 sq.ft. We are to be assessed by Scottish Gas (Energy Assistance Package) to see how energy efficient the system is, or if it requires replacement or improvement, as we currently spend £250 a month in oil, and £200 on electricity (an hellacious amount!!!). Given the foregoing, would I be correct (hopefully) in assuming our system is (A) not intended for a house this size and (B) not energy efficient?Many thanks!
 
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Ecowarm, I'm only going by what we were told. If it's incorrect, apologies. I don't know what system it is, but a description - as best as I can find - is at the link above. Cheers.
 
Sounds like a zone valve problem to me. I'm assuming the boiler is heating something (ie heating) so if the boiler is producing heat then the boiler can't have failed unless it's a utility type boiler with the pump and zone valves inside it.

Does the boiler have two large pipes coming out of it and going upstairs to the airing cupboard?
Do you have a circulating pump in the airing cupboard? (They're usually a maroon colour)
Do you have one or two zone valves in the airing cupboard? (They're silver coloured boxes which sit on pipes)

I'm asking these assuming something's still wrong. I'll make suggestions re the efficiency, etc separately.
 
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Hi there, thanks for your response. The boiler has 4 pipes coming out of it/going in. There are 2 on the left hand side, top & bottom. The top branches up into the loft (we are in a bungalow) while the other runs along the garage wall (boiler is in said garage), where it runs parallel with the 2 from the right side (again top and bottom). All 4 then run into the wall and under the house. From touching them at this point, only the right hand pipe is hot (tracked back to the top left - the one that also branches into the loft but the loft pipe is cold right now?!). No silver boxes or maroon pumps in sight at this end, or in the airing cupboard. Maybe in the loft or under the house. The CH and HW are both on, but CH not triggered (house is warm right now). I'm sorry, that's best I can do right now. Thanks again.
 
That's a start! It sounds like a standard boiler with one side for the heating and the other side for the hot water.

The one long pipe on its own sounds like the heating return.

The pump and zone valves will (I assume) be in the loft with two pumps. If you look at the pump you'll see an arrow impressed on the main body and this shows you which way the water is flowing.

The top pipes off the boiler are the flow (one heating flow and the other hot water flow).
The bottom pipes are the returns (heating and hot water).

The flow pipes get hot first.

When trying to find the problem you need to follow the pipes and work out which ones get hot and which don't. (The returns will warm up in time.)

Where you have heating working, the heating flow will be warm, the pump will be vibrating, the pipes before and after the pump will be the same temperature and the pipes each side of the zone valve will be the same temperature. The return will be less warm. For this to happen the programmer has to be set to on/timed at the correct time of day, and the room thermostat should call for heat. This process sends a signal for the pump to spin and the zone valve to open to let the water through.

With your hot water it seems as if the pump has failed (is it vibrating when calling for heat) or the zone valve has failed. If there's no hot water in any of the pipes it could be the pump, zone valve or hot water cylinder thermostat. To test these it's best to get a plumber who has some electricial knowledge so he can test which part has failed then replace it. If part of the pipe work is warming then the pump is probably working but the zone valve has failed.

Hope this helps!!
 
Have you done what i asked in post#2

you have a gravity hot water system and it sounds to me the system is low on water
 
Hi, no sorry I haven't had a chance yet, as with my back getting up there is a problem (spinal damage awaiting surgery). I will do this as soon as I can. I know there is a pump for the heating system under the living room floor (next to garage where the boiler is) and it's working because I feel it sometimes slightly through the boards and this section of floor is always warmest. It is a maroon pump from memory. I will try and go under the floor as well, to identify which pipe this is, in relation to the boiler. Strange that all 3 other pipes are cold...
 
Any thoughts on the boiler itself and the efficiency, given what i posted earlier? Thanks.
 
Yes, thanks for that, but what about the size? The page says it's for a 2-3 bedroom house, max area 1200sq.ft., where mine is a 6 bedroom bungalow, 1700sq.ft. (it was two adjoining houses, now knocked into one). Would this affect the efficiency of the boiler and would it be best to replace it with one suited to a larger home? Thanks.
 
I thought I'd written a long post here somewhere?

Maybe I didn't save it?
 
Your boiler sounds undersized
But if your using that sort of oil the house must have very bad thermal qualities ie very badly insulated
 
Hi, yes, it's just been fully insulated, loft-wise, where it was found that in around a third the length there was only around two inches of vermiculite, and the same for rockwool through the second third. The third I have been able to get into (i.e. the part first accessed, which is lit and floored) had the required amount of rockwool, so I had assumed it was all through the house. That's all sorted now, and they're putting in cavity wall insulation as well.
 
Ecowarm, taking into account the new insulation, the output required is 36.65kw, a wee bit more than the max output of the current boiler at 26.38kw.
 
Hmmm, it appears that should be 39.65kw. Is this a significant enough shortfall from the max operating capacity of the current boiler, do any heating engineers think? What would be best to replace it, if so? There is only the oil fired option available here.Thanks.
 
We have no money, mate. Nowt. That's how we have qualified for this Energy Assistance Package the (Scottish) Government is running. We get a grant for £4000 for insulation and whatever remains goes to upgrading our heating system if it's below the set energy efficiency limits being used by the assessors. If it's outwith these limits (I.e. Not energy efficient) the grant goes up to £6500. We're shelling out £450 a month for heating and electricity. It's crippling us (no pun, given my back problem!).
 
Has anyone asked if its a pressurised system or not ?
if its a standard boiler and not pressurised it could just be a simple gravity fed hot water system.
My question would be who fitted it and how did they do it ?
i have been wiring boilers now for many years and it amazes me how things are done sometimes but in my experience its normally a motorized valve but it could be a cylinder stat some have a reset on them but mostly its the oil boiler that would trigger the reset switch on your immersion than the other way around as the oil boiler will heat water hotter then the immersion.
 
Warf Heating do a nice air to water heating unit easily installed and cheap at about £1200 and a good deal cheaper to run than oil heating.
All there is to it is a flow and return pipe to tee in to your existing flow and return from your oil boiler and it runs on a 20A switch comes with all controls needed !! worth a look i have fitted a few and all are happy with them.
 
The original thread's over a year old VJ. He's probably sorted now!

Welcome to the forums by the way!
 
Warf Heating do a nice air to water heating unit easily installed and cheap at about £1200 and a good deal cheaper to run than oil heating.
All there is to it is a flow and return pipe to tee in to your existing flow and return from your oil boiler and it runs on a 20A switch comes with all controls needed !! worth a look i have fitted a few and all are happy with them.
Could you please post a link to Warf Heating or the spec, vjsm? can't find on google.
Thanks
 
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