PowerFlushing?

[Householder]

Hi there,

I recently commissioned a Heating Engineer to replace my ancient 29 year old Potterton Boiler with a new Vaillant Ecotec 418 Open Vent system. Part of the Quote included PowerFlushing the Central Heating System.

His definition of PowerFlushing was to locate a special pumping machine on the landing of the house, remove the circulation Pump and fit two connectors in its place. They he spent over two hours pumping the water around the system, opening one radiator at the time. At the end of the process, he opened the drain valve and allowed gravity to empty the system until clean water flowed through.

I've just watched a Fernox video describing the PowerFlushing process and to my mind my Plumber didn't PowerFlush the system at all! In fact all he did was to pump water around the system moving any sludge and debris from one radiator to the next. At the end, no PowerFlushing was involved, only gravity was used to flush the system.

From what I understand, instead of simply recirculating the dirty water from the machine straight back into the system, he should have had a clean water inlet and dirty water outlet attached to the PowerFlushing machine. This was not done.

Please can an expert advise if I've misunderstood something here? Or am I correct in my understanding that you can't actually PowerFlush a system unless you use the special pump to force clear water through the relevant part of the system allowing an equivalent amount of dirty water to exit into a drain.

Looking forward to your replies ASAP because the Engineer is due back this afternoon and I'm considering asking him to PowerFlush the system again, properly this time.

Best regards,

Householder

 

[Householder]

Crack open a bleed valve on one of your rads, let it run into a clean rag for a moment or two, the first bit WILL be dirty (it always is regardless how good the flush is), then see how dirty your water is.

You could be worrying about nothing!

T'internet is the worst tool ever if you're looking for bad news!

Thanks Croppie,

I obtained a Magnabooster MB3 (He'd never heard of such a thing!) and he fitted it for me (after I showed him the internet video).

Earlier today, I opened the drain valve on the MB3 and drained out TWO BUCKETS of crap before clean water ran through.

The system was only fitted 10 days ago and I've only run the Boiler for 1 hour because I've been away.

I'm convinced that he didn't use the PowerFlushing machine properly and simply circulated the sludge and then allowed gravity to remove a small proportion of it.

Best regards,

Householder

PS. Couldn't disagree with you more about this Internet. I've used it to save lives - literally!

 

[Householder]

Depending on the machine but Did he have a hose attached to a cold mains anywhere.....maybe loft

No, that's my point. No clean water was entering the system. He was just circulating and recirculating water after adding a cleaning agent.

 

[nysk2008]

If that's the case by the sounds of it a full "powerflush" wasn't carried out; however I also believe vaillant don't specify a powerflush only a system clean which could by rights be interrupted in a number of ways - if he quoted on a powerflush you may need to get him back, if he quoted on a system clean/flush then sounds like he has

No, that's my point. No clean water was entering the system. He was just circulating and recirculating water after adding a cleaning agent.

 

[Rickster123]

The magnabooster is designed to catch the "crap". Even when a system is fully power flushed its practically impossible to remove it all. If the water ran clean and all is working well and heating well where is the issue? I just think you will have a real job trying to get him to flush it again.

 

[Scott_D]

Was the machine a magnacleanse?

 

[AWheating]

If that's the case by the sounds of it a full "powerflush" wasn't carried out; however I also believe vaillant don't specify a powerflush only a system clean which could by rights be interrupted in a number of ways - if he quoted on a powerflush you may need to get him back, if he quoted on a system clean/flush then sounds like he has

Boiler manufacturers do not normally statethat you need to use a power flush machine, they require you to flush the system to the current british standards which in many cases would require the use of a machine dependant on the systems condition. The british standard is about the system condition and leaves the method used to clean the system the choice of the installer. Normally 3 methods are exceptable, gravity, mains flush and machine.

 

[AWheating]

to me its sounds like you did not get a real powerflush. The correct method takes a number of hours and alot of equipment to do it correctly. Taking water samples as you dump dirty wata from each rad untill its almost drinkable.

 

[JeffD]

If your power flushing without magnets then you must flush n dump each rad till crystal clean, flushing with magnets you'd se the sludge on the magnets when he was cleaning them.

 

[AWheating]

you always need to dump, magnets only remove magnetic particals after all. you should dump till your tds/ph readings are correct or you can see the circles

 

[JeffD]

Yes I agree with that, you should dump all system cleaner out before flushing and dumping then you will get a true reading with TDS

 

[supper plumb]

HOW TO REMOVE RADIATOR SLUDGE - Plumbing Tips - YouTube
FERNOX TF1 COMPACT INSTALLATION - Plumbing Tips - YouTube
REMOVE AIRLOCK FROM RADIATOR - Plumbing Tips - YouTube

this is flushing but not power flushing
toms top tips how to flush a combi system - YouTube

 

[JeffD]

There's only one right way to powerflush for the correct result, I wouldn't go down the YouTube route :hammer:

 

[Deleted member 32524]

If you don't think it has been done properly test the water with some ph paper. A few quid for a roll. Should be around 7. Test the total dissolved solids, get mains water test it, then test the central heating water. If he has added inhibitor it will be higher than the mains. Think about 800.

 

[ed209]

It would take the best part of a day to power flush correctly even then I'm not convinced its that effective I've found one of the best methods assuming all the rads work to some extent is to put in some sentinel X800 and let that circulate over a couple of days then do a complete drain down several times.
Did he charge for a power flush? This can add a significant amount to a boiler change if you specifically wanted a power flush.

 

[JeffD]

It would take the best part of a day to power flush correctly even then I'm not convinced its that effective I've found one of the best methods assuming all the rads work to some extent is to put in some sentinel X800 and let that circulate over a couple of days then do a complete drain down several times.
Did he charge for a power flush? This can add a significant amount to a boiler change if you specifically wanted a power flush.

Id like to se you put x800 in a very stubborn cistern, when you drain it down do you think your removing all iron, power flushing as been out for years and if done properly you can definitely get 20% saving on gas bill of boiler, this is a proven fact, all you are doing with x800 and boiler running is munching it up but you need to get it out of the system.