Plumber did not commission boiler

[BloodyBoiling]

Not sure what my options are here.

Basically a friend of mine recommended his father in law to do our plumbing/gas work for our renovation. First job was to install a new boiler, and later install radiators, bathroom, kitchen, etc.

The boiler was installed last September but not switched on as the house had no electricity. The gas pipes and heating pipes downstairs and upstairs were first fixed. Come January, when we were looking to start on the bathroom, the guy goes awol. Barely responds to texts, won't answer the phone, says he's going to come round the day our bathroom stuff is being delivered but just doesn't turn up. So we gave up and had to find a new plumber.

New plumber comes along and finishes the kitchen, fits the bathroom, installs the radiators. All fine.

However, he highlights that the old plumber has not commissioned the boiler, and that the flue isn't sealed (has a collar just not sealed in), pressure release valve isn't fitted, and there's no condensate pipe. Also when new plumber went to connect the gas hob, gas was leaking from somewhere and we couldn't see where.

I get in contact with the old plumber and tell him that he needs to look at the work he's done as there's a gas leak, and also finish and commission the boiler. He said he doesn't see how there can be a gas leak since he didn't connect the new gas pipes, and the old ones are still connected. Guess where the leak is then... The old pipes...

He also says "Can't the new plumber commission it?" - to which I explain they're not particularly keen to do so.

He picks up the key from my friend and goes round when I'm at work. Texts me to say it's all done and it'll cost me £140, to which I tell him I've already paid him and he told me first fix was complete, I'm not paying him twice. He stops replying.

So now I'm in a position where my original plumber isn't going to finish his work, and my new plumber is reluctant to commission it and finish off his work.

I can understand his reluctance, however he has commented to say that the boiler has been installed well (with exception of the parts not done...) and he's turned it on to test it and it all works fine. Obviously happy to pay him to do whatever he needs to do to be comfortable signing it off, but what is my best course of action here?

EDIT: Sorry meant to confirm, the first plumber IS Gas Safe - I have looked him up to confirm.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Sounds like the first guy isn’t gas safe

 

[BloodyBoiling]

Sounds like the first guy isn’t gas safe

Sorry, meant to clarify that in the main post. He is gas safe, I've looked him up to make sure.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Sorry, meant to clarify that in the main post. He is gas safe, I've looked him up to make sure.

Contact them and they will force him to also you want gas safe to come out and inspect the job make sure the second plumber doesn’t correct anything

 

[BloodyBoiling]

Contact them and they will force him to also you want gas safe to come out and inspect the job make sure the second plumber doesn’t correct anything

I'm going to contact him again and give him one final chance to resolve the issue.

He was always very vague with payments which I naively trusted as I was new to dealing with trades and I trusted him being my friend's father in law. He quoted us £4900 for new boiler and 8 new radiators including all new gas and heating pipes. But he'd just do odd work every now and again, then say it was £225 or whatever for the work he'd done, rather than paying an invoice at the end. If I'd known better I'd have challenged him.

So I'm fully expecting him to try and charge me to finish the install and given the situation before I fully expect him to say he'll only come round if we pay him however much he wants to charge.

I'd rather avoid reporting him to gas safe as I don't want to put my friend in an awkward position but he might not leave me any choice - but what would you do in that situation? Tell him to do one and then report him?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I wouldn’t gas safe will contact him as there the body

And better than blowing someone else up if he’s doing bad work if you don’t tbh your as bad as him

 

[gmartine]

Time to come clean and tell your friend his inlaw has been fecking you around and you're going to report him to GS.

 

[Last Plumber]

If this is a case of poor workmanship by a gas safe registered engineer that lead to a gas safety issue, then yes, report it.
However, I personally don't think gas safe being involved will solve anything.
They will arrange (I expect) to meet him and you onsite to inspect and test his work but he will need to be there and probably be asked to do the testing under their observation. So long as the work he admits to doing is safe and meets current standards, there is no further involvement from them. They will not get involved with the financial side or any dispute over who should finish what.

 

[BloodyBoiling]

If this is a case of poor workmanship by a gas safe registered engineer that lead to a gas safety issue, then yes, report it.
However, I personally don't think gas safe being involved will solve anything.
They will arrange (I expect) to meet him and you onsite to inspect and test his work but he will need to be there and probably be asked to do the testing under their observation. So long as the work he admits to doing is safe and meets current standards, there is no further involvement from them. They will not get involved with the financial side or any dispute over who should finish what.

If he’s fitted a boiler and not installed a pressure release valve, condensate pipe, and left the flue unsealed, nor completed any of the required checks to commission the boiler, surely that would not be meeting current standards?

 

[Last Plumber]

If he’s fitted a boiler and not installed a pressure release valve, condensate pipe, and left the flue unsealed, nor completed any of the required checks to commission the boiler, surely that would not be meeting current standards?

That depends on your view point. If he didn't commission it, he hadn't finished?

I'm not siding with him here. I'm just making you think.

If he left it none-commissioned and unfinished but working that's different.

Was it left so that you could just turn it on and use it?

 

[BloodyBoiling]

That depends on your view point. If he didn't commission it, he hadn't finished?

I'm not siding with him here. I'm just making you think.

If he left it none-commissioned and unfinished but working that's different.

Was it left so that you could just turn it on and use it?

Yes and no.

It couldn’t be turned on because the house was being rewired, so there was no power. But as soon as there was power, and he attached to the mains (see below), yes.

He never said that further work needed to be done. He fitted it, and continued doing other work such as installing the heating pipes throughout the house. Then I just could not get him to come back.

As then mentioned above I asked him to come back and attach the new pipes to the mains (which he failed to explain he had not done despite telling me first fix was done), and to commission the boiler. He came while I was at work and attached to the mains, and did nothing to the boiler.

All the new plumber did was switch it on when they were fitting the sink etc, which is when they noticed the unfinished work.

 

[Ben-gee]

Hang on a minute.
You said that when he fitted it there was no electricity at the property and it was part of a large renovation project.
Obviously the boiler could not be commissioned in these circumstances and I’m sure the plumber didn’t consider that the job was finished - he was part way through installing it.
Now that you have apparently fallen out with one another that does put an awkward spin on it - but I don’t think it’s a gas safe reporting situation as it is.
It sounds like he is capable of good work, just needs to finish it - this is a case for diplomatic resolution via your friend if need be. It’s not ideal I know, but try getting the wives involved- that can often get the ball rolling ( you can borrow mine in this respect, she is quite formidable!)

 

[Ben-gee]

Messages crossing a bit.

 

[BloodyBoiling]

Hang on a minute.
You said that when he fitted it there was no electricity at the property and it was part of a large renovation project.
Obviously the boiler could not be commissioned in these circumstances and I’m sure the plumber didn’t consider that the job was finished - he was part way through installing it.
Now that you have apparently fallen out with one another that does put an awkward spin on it - but I don’t think it’s a gas safe reporting situation as it is.
It sounds like he is capable of good work, just needs to finish it - this is a case for diplomatic resolution via your friend if need be. It’s not ideal I know, but try getting the wives involved- that can often get the ball rolling ( you can borrow mine in this respect, she is quite formidable!)

That is my preferred solution and one I have attempted (and am attempting again)

I wouldn’t have expected him to commission at that point (in all honesty, I didn’t know it was even a thing) but expected him to inform me that it needed to be done later down the line, and to actually come and do it. Bear in mind the boiler went on the wall last September, and he didn’t even come round until recently to finish the gas pipes after I asked him to. Between September and then, he was just dodging all contact for no reason.

The only fallout was when he asked for payment for something I’d already paid for, and he just stopped replying after two messages. So I presume it’s a fallout - who knows!

Anyway, I’ve messaged him this morning asking him to complete the work. He’s not replied yet which means he probably won’t reply at all. My friend is over tomorrow as he’s my carpenter, so I’ll give him the lowdown, let him decide if he wants to push the case with him, and if not I’ll have no option to report to gas safe and hope for the best.

 

[Last Plumber]

Yes and no.

It couldn’t be turned on because the house was being rewired, so there was no power. But as soon as there was power, and he attached to the mains (see below), yes.

He never said that further work needed to be done. He fitted it, and continued doing other work such as installing the heating pipes throughout the house. Then I just could not get him to come back.

As then mentioned above I asked him to come back and attach the new pipes to the mains (which he failed to explain he had not done despite telling me first fix was done), and to commission the boiler. He came while I was at work and attached to the mains, and did nothing to the boiler.

All the new plumber did was switch it on when they were fitting the sink etc, which is when they noticed the unfinished work.

Well if he left it usable by a customer he is wrong for doing it. Obviously I haven't seen it so I can't assess the dangers.

The flue not being sealed could be a gas safety issue as well as leaving a boiler usable but uncommissioned.

What I am asking is, how would he view it? He might see it that he hadn't finished the job and you got someone else. In my eyes, someone else taking over means exactly that.

Personally I would have left it capped off from gas and disconnected from electricity and with none-commissioned appliance label on it if I were leaving it length of time in that condition.

As far as Gas safe are concerned though, the PRV missing 'could', cause injury or damage to property but is it a Gas safety issue? I don't think so.

I am by no means defending someone who I do not know over a job I have not seen, I just think that involving Gas safe could lead to more trouble than it is worth. In my opinion you would be better where relatives and friends are concerned, discussing it face to face to resolve it or moving on and putting it down to bad experience.

Bodies such as Gas safe, HSE etc, will only investigate to the letter of the law where they are concerned, if that makes sense.

 

[BloodyBoiling]

Well if he left it usable by a customer he is wrong for doing it. Obviously I haven't seen it so I can't assess the dangers.

The flue not being sealed could be a gas safety issue as well as leaving a boiler usable but uncommissioned.

What I am asking is, how would he view it? He might see it that he hadn't finished the job and you got someone else. In my eyes, someone else taking over means exactly that.

Personally I would have left it capped off from gas and disconnected from electricity and with none-commissioned appliance label on it if I were leaving it length of time in that condition.

As far as Gas safe are concerned though, the PRV missing 'could', cause injury or damage to property but is it a Gas safety issue? I don't think so.

I am by no means defending someone who I do not know over a job I have not seen, I just think that involving Gas safe could lead to more trouble than it is worth. In my opinion you would be better where relatives and friends are concerned, discussing it face to face to resolve it or moving on and putting it down to bad experience.

Bodies such as Gas safe, HSE etc, will only investigate to the letter of the law where they are concerned, if that makes sense.

Like I say, I don’t particularly want to involve them if I can help it. I’d quite happily chalk it up to a lesson learned and just pay someone else to finish it and commission it.

Problem is my new plumber really isn’t keen to do so. We do have a good relationship, so if I push the fact I have no choice he might do it, but he might not.

At that point, what other options do I have?

 

[Chuck]

Like I say, I don’t particularly want to involve them if I can help it. I’d quite happily chalk it up to a lesson learned and just pay someone else to finish it and commission it.

Problem is my new plumber really isn’t keen to do so. We do have a good relationship, so if I push the fact I have no choice he might do it, but he might not.

At that point, what other options do I have?

Broadly speaking GSR's are not permitted to 'commission' another's work. This is a rule designed to prevent abuse, which was an issue in the past, by firms employing one GSR engineer to 'sign off' as a formality the work of unqualified installers.

So, worst case, you'll have to get someone to 'reinstall' the boiler. Make it clear that you understand that you will need to pay for, say, a couple of days labour (to give time for everything to be checked carefully and redone if necessary) and you may find your usual plumber will be okay with taking on the work.

If this case were not complicated by 'friendship factors' you would recover your costs from the contractor who did not complete their work using the small claims court if necessary.

 

[BloodyBoiling]

Broadly speaking GSR's are not permitted to 'commission' another's work. This is a rule designed to prevent abuse, which was an issue in the past, by firms employing one GSR engineer to 'sign off' as a formality the work of unqualified installers.

So, worst case, you'll have to get someone to 'reinstall' the boiler. Make it clear that you understand that you will need to pay for, say, a couple of days labour (to give time for everything to be checked carefully and redone if necessary) and you may find your usual plumber will be okay with taking on the work.

If this case were not complicated by 'friendship factors' you would recover your costs from the contractor who did not complete their work using the small claims court if necessary.

Thanks, I think that was the answer I was looking for - asking them to “reinstall” rather than commission it.

At this point I honestly don’t even care if it costs me a few hundred quid, I’m tired of renovating this house and want it finished lol

 

[Last Plumber]

Like I say, I don’t particularly want to involve them if I can help it. I’d quite happily chalk it up to a lesson learned and just pay someone else to finish it and commission it.

Problem is my new plumber really isn’t keen to do so. We do have a good relationship, so if I push the fact I have no choice he might do it, but he might not.

At that point, what other options do I have?

I feel for you, it's a bad position to be in.

You can only hope he will take it on. Psychology has a lot to do with it, as in how this is viewed by Plumber 2.

It sounds like he has done more than Plumber 1 anyway.

We all take on other peoples work on a daily basis but it is with the understanding that it is an existing installation. i.e. we didn't install it and as far as we can tell, it tests out to be safe & sound. We all come across dangerous things and poor workmanship regularly but take no responsibility for it. Plumber 2 knows the story and has suspicions that things aren't right which is where the reluctance comes in.

Maybe he would see it different if it was all logged?
Who knows? it is his decision at the end of the day and if he doesn't want it, you can only try others.