pipe freezer

[malc]

hello,anyone any experience or advice on pipe freezing equipment please.

 

[Bernie2]

Hmm!

Had a few goes with this stuff. Don't rely on small bottles of CO2 make sure you have got a good sized full cylinder. Make sure the pipe cuff's are the right size and fit properly. Make sure there is no movement in the water inside the pipe. Make sure the water is cool as convection currents within warm water can stop it freezing.
Oh! Aye! Here are some more. Don't rely on the time it tells you it should take to freeze a pipe, its often wrong. Plastic pipe takes longer to freeze than iron or copper. Make sure you leave room for the ice plug and it doesn't expand to blow the pipe.

Don't take it for granted that when the frost forms on the outside of the pipe its frozen. Try and arrange it so that you can test the down stream flow has stopped.

And don't touch the frost, watch out for frost burns. Read all instructions thoroughly, it may seem none dangerous to freeze pipes but it can be. And by the way I've had pipes defrost in a few minutes not he half hour they tell you. And what a mess it makes. But then I have also had them go as sweet as a nut!
It depends, just take your time.


There are loads of tricks with freezing, I've forgotten a lot of them, I'll try and post a few later.

 

[stevetheplumber]

electric freezers are great never had any problems with themeven up to two inch barrel
ive found the disposable ones oknon small stuff where you can open something to prove its worked fine just to get a valve on or fit a cap its the larger co2 bottles weve had troubles with so id go electric if the job warrants it or disposable for quick small works
ive changed a six inch valve on a working heating system with the pipe frozen with liquid nitrogen but this was applied by a specialist company

 

[migoplumber]

follow steves advice, hire from your local shop an electric one, i did 1 1/2 steel, biggest problem was waiting for the thing to defrost!!
best 60 quid ive spent

shaun

 

[Mike Jackson]

I used to have the distillers Co2 setup. Worked fine but you had to sit over the job topping up the freeze jackets. Switched to an arctic electric kit and that's a lot better. Stick the freeze heads on and shoot off, have a cuppa, pick up materials and get back to a frozen pipe. The freeze took longer than the Co2 but the job was quicker because you could leave it to it.

Mike

 

[HTB]

I've got an electric one but I think it needs re-gassing, on a hot day it just doesn't work.

(And to be fair on 15 and 22 copper the small disposable cans and jacket are much quicker).

Anyone know where I can get it re-gassed??

 

[Alanka]

There is a new type of pipe freezer now available which I've just ordered and expect to have in a few days -- the 'Plumbfreeze FZ400'. It is totally electronic -- no gas, no refrigerant, no compressor. It uses a thermoelectric effect (the Peltier effect) where an electric current causes cooling (indefinitely) at special junctions situated in the clip-on freezer heads. When you want to thaw the pipework you flick a switch to reverse the current, which rapidly heats up the heads and melts the iceplug!

The principle is not new and has been used for years in small mobile refrigerators and cool boxes, and to control the temperature of electronic equipment, but it's the first time I've seen it applied to a plumbing pipe freezer.

I've had the traditional electric freezers, but have found them exceedingly ***bersome and prone to need regassing quite often, and at great expense (£50 a throw, plus transportation). I currently use the gas canister and foam jacket method, which is pretty good but sometimes thaws out rather quickly and catches you out!

I'm hoping this new type will solve all the problems. In any case I'll report to this forum when I've given it a good try.

 

[flat pack]

Hi ive shut down the plantroom on a block of flats
when heating was on
did the biz
20 min new valve connect on steel pipework


[DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DauEdi9e4UVo"]
[/DLMURL]

 

[emergencyman]

There is a new type of pipe freezer now available which I've just ordered and expect to have in a few days -- the 'Plumbfreeze FZ400'. It is totally electronic -- no gas, no refrigerant, no compressor. It uses a thermoelectric effect (the Peltier effect) where an electric current causes cooling (indefinitely) at special junctions situated in the clip-on freezer heads. When you want to thaw the pipework you flick a switch to reverse the current, which rapidly heats up the heads and melts the iceplug!

The principle is not new and has been used for years in small mobile refrigerators and cool boxes, and to control the temperature of electronic equipment, but it's the first time I've seen it applied to a plumbing pipe freezer.

I've had the traditional electric freezers, but have found them exceedingly ***bersome and prone to need regassing quite often, and at great expense (£50 a throw, plus transportation). I currently use the gas canister and foam jacket method, which is pretty good but sometimes thaws out rather quickly and catches you out!

I'm hoping this new type will solve all the problems. In any case I'll report to this forum when I've given it a good try.

Any news yet? Im thinking of buying one. I have just looked at the website and it looks a great piece of kit, think I want one. How much did you pay?

 

[bcp]

for Alanka. I also had a look at the Plumbfreeze website but couldn't find any info on price or how to order. I emailed a coule of days ago but had no reply.. Can you tell us how did you get one and what was the cost?

 

[Carl86]

My guess is its gonna be at least Grands worth of kit. Looks the biz thought!

 

[bcp]

I was also looking at Rothenberger-6.5030 6.35kg liquid withdrawal type gas. Seemed like a good compromise at around £280.00 then I read 'Stevetheplumber''s post and am back in a quandry.
Take a look at the following link Rothenberger Rofrost CO2 Pipe Freezing Kit

Anyone used it?

 

[Alanka]

Hi guys! I took delivery of a PlumbFreeze FZ400 a few days ago, from Plumbfreeze Ltd, Lancs. (plumbfreeze.com), and have been testing it out very thoroughly for the last couple of days, on 15mm and 22mm copper pipe. It cost me £358.86 total.

I'm very sorry to say that I am today returning it to the suppliers for a refund (which they have agreed to, but time will tell! I'll report on that too.)

With 15mm copper pipe (clean and new), following the instructions including a dab of heat conducting paste, the pipe was only partially frozen even after 20 minutes. I saw a ring of ice but not a complete waterproof plug. The temperature of the heads at this time was about -7 degC, which is not really cold enough to freeze a pipe in a reasonable time. The ambient temperature was a reasonable 19 degC.

The supplier told me on the phone that every machine is tested before despatch, but that there might be an airlock in the heat transfer fluid due to the machine being shaken up during delivery, and that letting it settle while connected to the mains should help. This did seem to make a slight difference, but what about the shaking up it would get in my van?!

After a few more similar tests with similar results, I gave up 15mm and moved on to 22mm clean copper pipe. It took over an hour to freeze a proper waterproof plug, and the head temperature reached about -7 degC (still not nearly cold enough). I then tried 22mm pipe again but wrapped a piece of wet newspaper around the pipe to aid thermal conduction (this always worked well with my old electric freezer). This time the pipe froze properly after about 50 minutes --still far too long to wait!! The head temperature kept at around -4 degC during the freeze -- which is why it took so long.

The little video on the supplier's website is rather misleading because it shows the temperature on the built-in digital thermometer falling rapidly to -16 degC. I never saw temperatures below -10 degC with 15mm pipe, and never below -5 with a 22mm pipe that successfully froze.

In my opinion this pipe freezer simply does not get cold enough when in good thermal contact with copper pipes and certainly would be little use to me in my plumbing activities. My tests were carried out using new clean pipe -- the results with old, painted pipes are likely to be worse.

Maybe they will manage to develop a more powerful Peltier freezer in the future, but this in my view is definitely not it.

 

[bcp]

Thanks for the feedback Alanka. I was just about to post that I had heard back from PlumbFreeze with a price and a way to order. You info is invaluable. In fairness (and hope?) I wonder if it might just be a faulty unit you got??

 

[stevetheplumber]

I was also looking at Rothenberger-6.5030 6.35kg liquid withdrawal type gas. Seemed like a good compromise at around £280.00 then I read 'Stevetheplumber''s post and am back in a quandry.
Take a look at the following link Rothenberger Rofrost CO2 Pipe Freezing Kit

Anyone used it?

theres on laying in my garage if you want to try it used twice failed both times and relegated to the pile of bits ill never use

 

[Alanka]

Thanks for the feedback Alanka. I was just about to post that I had heard back from PlumbFreeze with a price and a way to order. You info is invaluable. In fairness (and hope?) I wonder if it might just be a faulty unit you got??

It's possible, but they did say that every machine was tested before despatch, so I seriously doubt if my one was different from others. Also, they did not protest much about the return or try to persuade me to take another unit because mine was a 'rogue'. If I had 100% faith in a product, that's what I would do.

They also told me on the phone that they were bringing out a freezer that is designed to work in higher ambient temperatures (that plumbers might experience in warmer climates). They expected this machine to be available in about 3 months. If it works at higher ambients I would expect it to work more effectively in the UK than the current model. So I might give that one a try when it comes out!

If anyone else fancies giving the current model a try, please do, and report back to this forum on the results. I'd be really happy if the FZ400 really does work properly and that my particular unit was indeed faulty!

 

[Carl86]

I was expecting it to be a really expensive bit of kit, pitty its got some issues..

 

[emergencyman]

Yeah, thamks Alanka. I would have bought one if they worked ok .

 

[Alanka]

Just to complete the story, Plumbfreeze have collected the machine and have immediately refunded the whole purchase price.

So they are a good firm to deal with in that respect, even if the equipment was not in my view up to scratch! It gives me more confidence to consider dealing with them in the future.

 

[emergencyman]

Im considering a freeze master unit at around £620. But will I earn less money?
Most of my work is hourly , so when I get a nailed CH pipe I might get 2-3 hours out of it ( easy hours at that watching a hose drain down and a tank fill up) . Could I charge to use the machine, say an hours labour per freeze or do you think this would upset the customers ( afterall I dont charge extra to use my drill)
Maybee the customers, knowing little about plumbing , would think that all plumbers have one of these in the back of the van and would be unhappy to pay extra.
Any thoughts?

Also, I heard a stort about someone freezing a pipe and the pipe splitting, could this happen?

 

[Cool john]

I am the MD of plumbfreeze and heard about the forum from a concerned potential customer.

We have had a look at the returned machine and found the problem was a small burr which had come away from plastic component and restricted the coolant flow. We have now put procedures in place to make sure this can not happen again.

As with almost any product there may be an occasional problem and we endeaver to provide the best possible customer care.

Now that I have found the forum, if anyone has any questions, I will try and answer them as quickly as possible.

 

[emergencyman]

I am the MD of plumbfreeze and heard about the forum from a concerned potential customer.

We have had a look at the returned machine and found the problem was a small burr which had come away from plastic component and restricted the coolant flow. We have now put procedures in place to make sure this can not happen again.

As with almost any product there may be an occasional problem and we endeaver to provide the best possible customer care.

Now that I have found the forum, if anyone has any questions, I will try and answer them as quickly as possible.

Hi John,

As you can see from my posts I really want a pipe freezer but I am worried of spending £££s on something unsuitable. Its good to see that you refunded the faulty unit without quibble which gives some confidence.

If I bought one and was unhappy with it could I also return it? If it works as good as it does on the video I would be really happy to keep it .

When does the new model come out, will this be available for the UK and how much will it be?

Also, just to mention that it isnt clear from your website that you sell them online for £358. The buy now link is hidden on the 2nd page.

I see that you are in Blackpool, would it be possiblle to view ( well have a play with ) one?

 

[bcp]

I am the MD of plumbfreeze and heard about the forum from a concerned potential customer.
We have had a look at the returned machine and found the problem was a small burr which had come away from plastic component and restricted the coolant flow. We have now put procedures in place to make sure this can not happen again.

Perhaps one for cooljohn also: I still am torn as to which one to go for. I read Cooljohns post with much interest and Alanka's experience about the return. Convince me cooljohn to go for plumbfreeze instead of the Rothenberger (large CO2 cylinder) model, or another electric freezer brand.

 

[Bob Croft]

I have got the FreezeMaster machine. They are very good. Not cheap but if you run them regular then servicing is minimal

 

[Cool john]

I am sure Alanka will confirm that not only did we refund his money but we also arrange and pay for collection which is standard practice for us, but is quite rare in the industry. We can only afford to do this because the number of returns are very small in relation to the number of sales. Believe it or not Alanka is the only person who has ever asked us for a refund at this point in time. That is how I know who he is and what was wrong with his machine.

I should also point out that the £358 was actually including VAT and the post and packaging. Although the actual price of the unit has just gone up from £299+VAT&P&P to £339+VAT&P&P. Yes you are welcome to come and freeze as many pipes as you wish. Just let me know when you want to come and I will try to be here.

The new model will be about 4 months but it is not really necessary within the Uk since the number of days where the temperature goes above 30C is minimal. It will be about £50-£70 extra. Does it really matter whether the ice core is at -15 or -30C? ice is ice.

I have asked the sales team to mention the forum to new customers and give feedback. Unfortunately we have a 10-14 day waiting list at the moment so it may take a little while.

Thanks for the info about the website I have arranged to get the changes made.

Well BCP, as far as I am concerned alanka is the only person we have refunded to date, that is how I know who he is and what was wrong with his machine. We are just unlucky that he is a forum member. It is highly likely that all the other manufacturers will have faulty machines from time to time, but these people are not forum members.

Our return rate is less than 2% which is not bad but we are looking to constantly improve on.

The obvious advantages electric pipe freezers have over CO2 units is there is little or no running costs with electric pipe freezers and you can take as long as required to carry out your work without worrying if you should inject more gas into the jacket and how much it is costing you to do so. We have had a unit on permanent test 24hrs a day since mid January in our factory. The FZ400 also allows you to quickly thaw the Ice core which is quite important if the building has no central heating in the middle of winter.

I will list the advantages I think we have over other electric pipe freezers to make reading easier.

Approx 1/2 to 1/3 the purchase price of electric pipe freezers.
Approx 1/2 the weight.
Thaws the Ice core.
Electronic Thermometer and circuit.
No ongoing re-gassing.
Excellent customer care.

There is currently a 2 week waiting time, which gives you some idea how popular this machine has become in such a short time.

 

[bcp]

Thank you cooljohn for replying and information. It makes interesting reading. Maybe alanka's experience has been good for you as it's given you a means of plugging (sorry for the pun) features and benefits of your equipment to a wide audience. Regards. bcp.

 

[theanalyst]

Nice to see a manufacturer posting on here...

But I am now dubious of this kit unless I hear a lot of reports to the contrary.

Hope to read some member feedbacks (longstanding members...!)

 

[Alanka]

I'll second that, 'theanalyst'!

Just to update you, I contacted Plumbfreeze again two or three weeks ago, asking them to sell me another unit, with a money-back guarantee that it will work as specified, as my original one did have a serious fault.

However, the MD said that he had stopped taking orders now because a considerable backlog of orders had built up, which took priority. (I thought that I might take priority as he had supplied me with a faulty unit, but he would not agree to this! He said he'd let me know.)

He then told me that in any case he might well not be selling any more units directly from Plumbfreeze, because an important sole agency contract was being negotiated with a large plumbing supplier, and they might object to his company selling units. He did not want to risk compromising this contract.

So that's the position at the moment -- I'll contact him again fairly soon (if he doesn't contact me first) and keep you all posted.

(I'm finding it very hard work trying to spend my money!)

 

[theanalyst]

I'll second that, 'theanalyst'!

Just to update you, I contacted Plumbfreeze again two or three weeks ago, asking them to sell me another unit, with a money-back guarantee that it will work as specified, as my original one did have a serious fault.

However, the MD said that he had stopped taking orders now because a considerable backlog of orders had built up, which took priority. (I thought that I might take priority as he had supplied me with a faulty unit, but he would not agree to this! He said he'd let me know.)

He then told me that in any case he might well not be selling any more units directly from Plumbfreeze, because an important sole agency contract was being negotiated with a large plumbing supplier, and they might object to his company selling units. He did not want to risk compromising this contract.

So that's the position at the moment -- I'll contact him again fairly soon (if he doesn't contact me first) and keep you all posted.

(I'm finding it very hard work trying to spend my money!)

Hmm. Thanks for the update Big Al.
Sounds like a case of 'how not to win customers and influence people'!!!... or being a pessimist, if the MD is worried that the replacement item will also not work as described (eg/ like the first one), then it could lose him a lot more sales with internet posts etc on the subject.

Hopefullly he will post and offer someone one to review, and then write the review up on here.. but I doubt it!

I would say spend your money elsewhere mate

 

[bcp]

Keep us in the loop please. I find this odd - if a deal is not yet in place, why would a company not want to take orders/money. In the wise words of Chief Inspector Clouseau - I suspect no-one and yet Hercule, I suspect everyone.

 

[Alanka]

Anyone out there heard/read/seen any more about the Plumbfreeze unit?

 

[365drills]

Just throwing something into this pot...

We produce diamond drills for porcelain tiles.... But distribute our range via Arctic Products.

And Arctic produce either the Spray Cans

Or the electric one

Dont know enough about Pipe Freezing to comment on systems but if you need any extra information their catalogue can be flicked through here:

40 Page catalogue

Richard

 

[bcp]

I can recommend the diamond drills to everyone...(see ya at the bacon roll stand next time 365 drills).

 

[northcarr]

The electric pipe freezers are by far the best,once the pipe has frozen 10 to 15min for a 15mm pipe,as long as the electric is on the pipe will stay frozen unlike the gas cannister type uwwwwwww

 

[bcp]

Arctic V Freezemaster (domestic) any experiences/views/opinions?
Trying to find a price for the Arctic unit is like getting blood from a stone.