Notification Nonsense?!

[HeatingSupport]

Hi All,

Ive recently took over a landlords portfolio consisting of approx 30 properties.

I carry out all Landlord Certs, Break downs and general plumbing.

the thing is, whilst carrying out my LLC's ive noticed that some of the boilers are quite new, but have not been fitted to Part 'L' regs, No room stats, No TRV's, No lagging where required. etc.

the general work is to a poor standard, pushfit on show, old flue holes not bricked up, boilers wired in to plugs, condense ran externally in 3/4" pipe.

All this set alarm bells ringing, so i contacted the landlord and asked for the notifiacation certificates. they had no idea what i was on about, so i chased it up myself through Gas Safe and the Local Building Control and low and behold all the properties i checked had not been notified.

So called back Gas Safe to see what the protocol is and they told me:

this isnt really anything to do with us, you need to talk to building control!!

so i talk to building Control and they say they wont take any action against the engineer but instead willt ake action against the homeowner / Landlord for not getting it registered!!

then its down to the landord/homeowner to take ther engineer to court / trading standards!!

this is absolutley ridiculous as no one wants to take responsibilty for it and how is it ever goign to stop illegal / cowboy plumbers from fitting boilers if its not properly regulated!!

Sorry to rant on but im outraged by this!

Thanks

 

[dontknowitall]

It's the State we're in. And I'm not too surprised. Why not send a copy of what you've written above in a letter (as opposed to an email) to your local MP?

I quite agree with your sentiments. I'm sorry, I'm not into swearing on the internet but all that's bloody ridiculous.

Why do we pay thousands of pounds in fees and training costs if it's not to keep to various standards set by the State?

I suspect the local building inspector has not the foggiest idea what the rules are (there are so many of them now), nor has trading standards, nor has Gas Safe and so on.

 

[gakmonkey]

Anything dangerous such as an ID or riddor reportable is delt with, all the non compliant, badly designed, badly installed, never registered instalations fall into a grey area of no one seems to care and will push you from pillar to post if you do try and report them.

 

[secret squirrel]

Not to jump on the band wagon but this appears to be a typical situation in this country:

No one wants to take responsibility then something happens and its then easy to have a witch hunt and the last one to touch it...... well, we all know what happens then....

One chap employed by a building society to have a look at risks being taken, long story short they sacked him on his findings after initailly supporting him. He reported the building society to the FSA, who had an enquiry and did nothing. The chap was paid off by the building society, collapse of building society....... it just goes on.

 

[REDSAW]

welcome to the real world,
i could take you on jobs with fitters who will install to the exact points you mention ie, 3 pin plug, verticle condensate direct to concrete floor(no drain), hard-plumb filling loop, no system flush, no inhibiter etc.
the answer i get when questioning is, its done to a price what the customer wants to pay. where one fitter comes in £100 cheaper because the boiler is thrown onto a plug instead of a sparky running a fused spur and controler in. he gets the job because he's £100 cheaper.

 

[stevetheplumber]

welcome to the real world,
i could take you on jobs with fitters who will install to the exact points you mention ie, 3 pin plug, verticle condensate direct to concrete floor(no drain), hard-plumb filling loop, no system flush, no inhibiter etc.
the answer i get when questioning is, its done to a price what the customer wants to pay. where one fitter comes in £100 cheaper because the boiler is thrown onto a plug instead of a sparky running a fused spur and controler in. he gets the job because he's £100 cheaper.

thats news to me i never realised it had to be a spur i was told an unswitched socket was acceptable as pulling the plug counted as complete disconnection
personally i prefer the plug badly wired spurs can appear off when not

 

[REDSAW]

thats news to me i never realised it had to be a spur i was told an unswitched socket was acceptable as pulling the plug counted as complete disconnection
personally i prefer the plug badly wired spurs can appear off when not

yes your right steve. i am just going on preference.
the one i was at on tuesday was via an 8 foot trailing 4 way socket across the kitchen floor

 

[Puddle]

Just because a boiler instalation has not been notified,does not mean it has not been installed correctly,safely or by a registered person(have come across quite a few)
And it is not any of our bussiness as long as not our boiler
What is our problem is if it looks as installed by an unregistered person or unsafe
When you rang gas safe that is the point you should have raised ,not that they had not been notified,this is the Building controls problem
Ring them back,if you wish,state you believe boilers installed by non registered persons and landlords name,they will act on that
But why play the hero,do your gas checks and get paid first, if you must report
And yes they will go for the landlord or owner because they are a fixed target,with fixed assets,to insure payments of any fines handed out
As said ,we operate in the real world,alot differant from what is written in a regulation book
We live mainly in a self policing sociaty and a majority of us go through notification process,but if house not sold,who cares,my customers get a nice bit of paper and the above landlord does,nt
Even houses that are sold,it might make a two minute snag but that is about it ,as house packs regarding this,now thrown in dust bin

Ps Heard that since xmas gas safe has said no need to register new hob instalations,any one heard this,seems a bit strange as we now have the ffd reg to monotor

 

[stevetheplumber]

Just because a boiler instalation has not been notified,does not mean it has not been installed correctly,safely or by a registered person(have come across quite a few)
And it is not any of our bussiness as long as not our boiler
What is our problem is if it looks as installed by an unregistered person or unsafe
When you rang gas safe that is the point you should have raised ,not that they had not been notified,this is the Building controls problem
Ring them back,if you wish,state you believe boilers installed by non registered persons and landlords name,they will act on that
But why play the hero,do your gas checks and get paid first, if you must report
And yes they will go for the landlord or owner because they are a fixed target,with fixed assets,to insure payments of any fines handed out
As said ,we operate in the real world,alot differant from what is written in a regulation book
We live mainly in a self policing sociaty and a majority of us go through notification process,but if house not sold,who cares,my customers get a nice bit of paper and the above landlord does,nt
Even houses that are sold,it might make a two minute snag but that is about it ,as house packs regarding this,now thrown in dust bin

Ps Heard that since xmas gas safe has said no need to register new hob instalations,any one heard this,seems a bit strange as we now have the ffd reg to monotor

yes thats what theve said im told talking to quite a few blokes at the xmas merchants bash seems like a lot of people have stopped registering anything since corgi evidently the only time anyone asks for details is for the hips pack and im told if you dont have the regisration a gas saftey check is accepted

 

[Puddle]

Think notification has turned into an anoyance for gas safe and building control and that has filtered down to engineers

 

[stevetheplumber]

Think notification has turned into an anoyance for gas safe and building control and that has filtered down to engineers

with any luck it will fizzle out and die only person who realy benifited from it was the tax man so realy it was a godsend for illegal fitters as the rest of us were efectivly loosing and cash customers

 

[theanalyst]

Scrap that CKR1 then

 

[payney1974]

Why do landlords penny pinch so much? Isnt it cheaper to get the job done right and then have no come backs for 10 - 15 years?? I went to a boiler in warranty for a manufacturer i do a bit of work for so it had been registered and all legit last week: 1/ condense run externally in 22mm plastic and then terminates on the patio ( the plastic soil stack is no word of a lie 6 inches away!!) 2/ fitted with a three way plug on an extension lead through the hall about 4 metres long 3/ no filling loop just 2 ballofixs linked with copper pipe(i explained the danger of getting inhibitor in the water supply but then i thought inhibitor????? your having a laugh !!!!) Then on a totally unrelated subject i noticed the waste off the sink run 5 metres on TOP of the patio and then into the manhole with the lid resting on it?? I had to laugh!!

 

[stevetheplumber]

Why do landlords penny pinch so much? Isnt it cheaper to get the job done right and then have no come backs for 10 - 15 years?? I went to a boiler in warranty for a manufacturer i do a bit of work for so it had been registered and all legit last week: 1/ condense run externally in 22mm plastic and then terminates on the patio ( the plastic soil stack is no word of a lie 6 inches away!!) 2/ fitted with a three way plug on an extension lead through the hall about 4 metres long 3/ no filling loop just 2 ballofixs linked with copper pipe(i explained the danger of getting inhibitor in the water supply but then i thought inhibitor????? your having a laugh !!!!) Then on a totally unrelated subject i noticed the waste off the sink run 5 metres on TOP of the patio and then into the manhole with the lid resting on it?? I had to laugh!!

for future reference can you tell us which make your working on?

 

[payney1974]

viessmann steve

 

[garry38]

thats news to me i never realised it had to be a spur i was told an unswitched socket was acceptable as pulling the plug counted as complete disconnection
personally i prefer the plug badly wired spurs can appear off when not

this is wrong all boilers ive ever fitted or seen fitted correctly are to a fused spur with a 3 amp fuse in it.
any 1 plugging it direct to a socket is a cowboy

 

[prs1]

I belive some boilers come with a fitted plug

Extract from ariston M I s

The method of connection to the electricity supply must facilitate
complete electrical isolation of the appliance, by the use of a fused
double pole isolator having a contact separation of at least 3 mm in
all poles or alternatively, by​

​

​

​

means of a 3 A fused three pin plug and​

unswitched shuttered socket outlet both complying with BS 1363.

 

[REDSAW]

oh dear, we fit main, hiho tonto.

 

[Puddle]

this is wrong all boilers ive ever fitted or seen fitted correctly are to a fused spur with a 3 amp fuse in it.
any 1 plugging it direct to a socket is a cowboy

check your regs
How can fitting a plug be classed as cowboy work,,it is perfectly acceptable practice as long as it has a 3amp fuse in it
you must have lead a sheltered life,have seen many top class installations powered by a plug

 

[garry38]

check your regs
How can fitting a plug be classed as cowboy work,,it is perfectly acceptable practice as long as it has a 3amp fuse in it
you must have lead a sheltered life,have seen many top class installations powered by a plug

whether plugs are aloud on boilers or not i still would not do it.
If plugs are aloud on boilers etc then why do every council in Britain when installing boilers fit fused spurs?
does british gas plug boilers into wall with a 3 pin plug? no don't think so ... what is the reason they fit spurs ? because it is a neater more proffesional job.
but on you go be my guest plug boilers into a plug socket until your hearts content but put your instalation next to mine and then we will see .

 

[Puddle]

whether plugs are aloud on boilers or not i still would not do it.
If plugs are aloud on boilers etc then why do every council in Britain when installing boilers fit fused spurs?
does british gas plug boilers into wall with a 3 pin plug? no don't think so ... what is the reason they fit spurs ? because it is a neater more proffesional job.
but on you go be my guest plug boilers into a plug socket until your hearts content but put your instalation next to mine and then we will see .

It is good you have such pride in your work,You think a job looks better with a fuse spare ,I think plug/fuse spare as long as installation correct,I am not bothered
The reason I mentioned the point was because customers read these posts and see a false remark about plugs being for cowboys and then look round and a plumber who has just finished doing a really good job,gets his workmanship brought into question for no reason apart from someones personal preferance

 

[prs1]

here here
id be more bothered about the rest of the install as long as it complys with MIs

 

[stevetheplumber]

whether plugs are aloud on boilers or not i still would not do it.
If plugs are aloud on boilers etc then why do every council in Britain when installing boilers fit fused spurs?
does british gas plug boilers into wall with a 3 pin plug? no don't think so ... what is the reason they fit spurs ? because it is a neater more proffesional job.
but on you go be my guest plug boilers into a plug socket until your hearts content but put your instalation next to mine and then we will see .

iwould love to fit new spurs for every boiler but when your working in the real world situations where the previous boiler is to an existing plug and socket and the customer wants the job as cheap as possible if it doesnt compromise safety i will go along with it id rather be working than not
as an example of how difficult it is in london i didnt bother to go and price a job recently when the customer let slip that she had six people coming to price
at least with a plug you pull it out and you know its disconnected ive had spurs where the wires were bypassing the switch as it kept blowing the fuse

 

[garry38]

iwould love to fit new spurs for every boiler but when your working in the real world situations where the previous boiler is to an existing plug and socket and the customer wants the job as cheap as possible if it doesnt compromise safety i will go along with it id rather be working than not
as an example of how difficult it is in london i didnt bother to go and price a job recently when the customer let slip that she had six people coming to price
at least with a plug you pull it out and you know its disconnected ive had spurs where the wires were bypassing the switch as it kept blowing the fuse

point taken i no how tough it must be for yous in london etc when you got plumbers all chasing same jobs. (blame this ridicules fast track system that seems to go on down there) but if i come across a customer who wont even pay an extra £100 to get a spur installed with stat i tend to price the job really high so i dont get the job. for 1 reason if they are scrimping and scraping on this how difficult will it be to get paid from them for any work i have done? i have had customers agree a price with me then when i had finished turn round and say thats a bit much for a days work.
i have learned my leason from this type of customer and do not entertain them 1 little bit.
i set any/ if any advertisement to target up market areas.

 

[hamish72]

whether plugs are aloud on boilers or not i still would not do it.
If plugs are aloud on boilers etc then why do every council in Britain when installing boilers fit fused spurs?
does british gas plug boilers into wall with a 3 pin plug? no don't think so ... what is the reason they fit spurs ? because it is a neater more proffesional job.
but on you go be my guest plug boilers into a plug socket until your hearts content but put your instalation next to mine and then we will see .

The fact that BG do it may mean its best avoided !!

 

[Bernie2]

Err!

I started work for a new company some years ago and they sent me to service a lot of properties. I marked them all down as sub standard installations even some new boilers.

What I did not know was that the company had apparently been servicing them for years!!

 

[migoplumber]

and dont forget most plumbers cant install into a fused spur. need to be part p for that.

 

[tr7dan]

Hi all

returning to the original topic of this thread, which I think was notifications, am I to assume that, from reading the posts, nobody is bothering to notify now?

What has prompted me to find this forum is the fact that CORGI have been sending my customers leaflets offering to provide service/ breakdown cover, having used the names and addresses of customers from my past notifications.

This means that they are competing with me and targeting MY customers (with a service that I also provide and rely on for part of my income) with info. gained from notifications that I was forced to submit to them.

Is this legal?

I've had 'phone calls from customers, particularly elderly ones, who are confused and not sure now who they should be paying for their service/ maintenance. They see the CORGI name and associate that with me and just don't know what's going on.

Having said that, I checked the CORGI site and it appears they have now withdrawn their Home Care Plan - presumably because of irate installers who feel that CORGI are 'poaching' customers.

It makes you wonder though doesn't it - is the notification process one big scam to allow CORGI, Gas Safe or whoever to harvest names and addresses for marketing purposes?

Dan

PS I'm a plug and socket man myself - the regs ask for (min 3mm) disconnection in both poles....and you can't get more disconnected than 'unplugged'

 

[CMairiD]

Regarding the mailings from CORGI advertising warranty services:

CORGIHomecareretractionstatement

 

[kirkgas]

this is wrong all boilers ive ever fitted or seen fitted correctly are to a fused spur with a 3 amp fuse in it.
any 1 plugging it direct to a socket is a cowboy

i think anyone complying with the current electrical regs could use this method as it is an approved method of complete isolation, in my opinion i do agree it doesnt look the best,

whether plugs are aloud on boilers or not i still would not do it.
If plugs are aloud on boilers etc then why do every council in Britain when installing boilers fit fused spurs?
does british gas plug boilers into wall with a 3 pin plug? no don't think so ... what is the reason they fit spurs ? because it is a neater more proffesional job.
but on you go be my guest plug boilers into a plug socket until your hearts content but put your instalation next to mine and then we will see .

i thought i would underline and bold this statement cause its not too often you see BG and professional in the same sentance, what has BG got to do with conversations about good installs, they are just a service/installation private company like many many others