Discuss Must you be Gas Safe Registered to do Gas installation? Read HSE's response. in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

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The problem is, even if you did manage to get the regulations re-written, the people who evade them will carry on doing so. The regulation isn't really the problem. T&e problem is there is no system in place to deter people from ignoring it. The customer is normally the one who loose out because they don't know any better, so the illegal or sub standard installer takes advantage of it.

No point having a punishment if you can't catch the culprits
 
The problem is, even if you did manage to get the regulations re-written, the people who evade them will carry on doing so. The regulation isn't really the problem. T&e problem is there is no system in place to deter people from ignoring it. The customer is normally the one who loose out because they don't know any better, so the illegal or sub standard installer takes advantage of it.

No point having a punishment if you can't catch the culprits
let's wait and see how this will enravell, but if what I'm calling for even gets rid of one rogue or illegal or substandard, that one case could have been the cause of this. Wouldn't it be worthed?
BBC News - Four injured in a house explosion in Nottinghamshire
 
Ive yet to meet any tradesman who ever considered their contract when it came to feeding their family or paying their bills.
Are you an employer or do you work on your own?
Ii'm an employer and would not allow anyone who worked for me to hold their own registration. Why would they need it when they shouldn't be doing work outside their place of employment taking potential customers from me.

Interesting.
I am an employer too (small - just 5'2" - and a hand full of workers) I think what people do outside of their Mon-Fri 8 to 4 hours is up to them.
Also, being realistic people will do other work - even if it is something totally different (like night club bouncer - amazing what people do in spare time)!
Mr TP has always had own corgi in years gone by when he worked for big employers and so have other guys I've known.

There is the potential for conflict of interest - workers stealing your customers - but it doesn't happen much because people know they will lose their jobs.

I know the guys we've employed over the years have done their own work - but they have found their own customers not competed with us. Our locations & type of work could be relevant.
 
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Interesting.
I am an employer too (small - just 5'2" - and a hand full of workers) I think what people do outside of their Mon-Fri 8 to 4 hours is up to them.
Also, being realistic people will do other work - even if it is something totally different (like night club bouncer - amazing what people do in spare time)!
Mr TP has always had own corgi in years gone by when he worked for big employers and so have other guys I've known.


There is the potential for conflict of interest - workers stealing your customers - but it doesn't happen much because people know they will lose their jobs.


I know the guys we've employed over the years have done their own work - but they have found their own customers not competed with us. Our locations & type of work could be relevant.
You are looking at this much from the business perspective, much of what we do on site and on a daily basis is centred around a Gas Safe Registration Number, why! Because right or wrong that's just the way the system is setup. If you decide to bypass it, you would have to bypass a lot of other things too! We've already had people suggesting it wouldn't be legally required to complete the benchmark! Frankly I find the sentiment behind that remark dangerous and ill thought! Your Gas Safe Registration number is why you can post comment on this very site. I am having real hard time comprehending that people can even suggest such proposal, particularly given that yet another Gas explosion has now happened in another of our country.
 
You may be asked your GSR number, from who ever, Nothing to stop people giving a false number or someone else's over the phone, because they are not check upon just noted, if that. Only people who may check are the smarter customers who may phone or go on line to check.
 
We have to be very practical when proposing changes because what can be seen as one slightly impractical or unreasonable suggestion can have all the good ideas thrown out.

Tamz has posted the pay rates in his area, Mrs Tara Plumbing has posted some very points about after hours work people do.

Look at both and ask why a skilled person taking home less than £400.00 should be stopped using their skills to supplement their income, are we employing people or using the rules to ensure we have what could be seen to be a type of slave labour?

We can't impose our rules on the lives of employees 24 / 7 it's hard enough ensuring they comply with our own business standards while representing us in customers homes and business premises.

I suggest open the gates for every qualified person to have their own GSR / RGII registration if they wish to comply with the rules of registration, at least that makes them and their installations legal and subject to all of the rules and responsibilities a registered party must follow.

This prevents the truly dangerous parties in the industry from beating the prices down further;

The site labourer / helper who thinks he knows enough to carry out an installation on a Saturday or Sunday.

The DIY who can also be from an associated trade or worse the internet / forum trawling expert who reads posts and says "Ye I can do that".

Bring everyone who is qualified onto the playing field, at least that way the referee can observe fair play or issue penalties where appropriate, it is important to remember that for as long as there are people operating on the sidelines they are outside the system and must be caught before any action can be taken.

A reply to the proposal to allow DIY, friends etc can be answered using the gas explosion highlighted earlier, an explosion in one house damaged how many others?

What happens to the owners of the adjoining properties who may not have home insurance cover?

If the cause was DIY or similar who will meet the cost of restoring the properties or the medical bills?

There are good rules and regulations already in place, maybe it would be better to get all of the interested / monitoring parties together to agree on the code of conduct and then publish a simple easy to understand set of rules (no more than ten or twelve) that the consumer can understand.

Then bring in the fuel suppliers (Gas companies) to take the rules as conditions of supply and to publish the rules on each bill or notification they send to the consumer as they are the ones who have the most contact with the consumer.
 
We have to be very practical when proposing changes because what can be seen as one slightly impractical or unreasonable suggestion can have all the good ideas thrown out.

Tamz has posted the pay rates in his area, Mrs Tara Plumbing has posted some very points about after hours work people do.

Look at both and ask why a skilled person taking home less than £400.00 should be stopped using their skills to supplement their income, are we employing people or using the rules to ensure we have what could be seen to be a type of slave labour?

We can't impose our rules on the lives of employees 24 / 7 it's hard enough ensuring they comply with our own business standards while representing us in customers homes and business premises.

I suggest open the gates for every qualified person to have their own GSR / RGII registration if they wish to comply with the rules of registration, at least that makes them and their installations legal and subject to all of the rules and responsibilities a registered party must follow.

This prevents the truly dangerous parties in the industry from beating the prices down further;

The site labourer / helper who thinks he knows enough to carry out an installation on a Saturday or Sunday.

The DIY who can also be from an associated trade or worse the internet / forum trawling expert who reads posts and says "Ye I can do that".

Bring everyone who is qualified onto the playing field, at least that way the referee can observe fair play or issue penalties where appropriate, it is important to remember that for as long as there are people operating on the sidelines they are outside the system and must be caught before any action can be taken.

A reply to the proposal to allow DIY, friends etc can be answered using the gas explosion highlighted earlier, an explosion in one house damaged how many others?

What happens to the owners of the adjoining properties who may not have home insurance cover?

If the cause was DIY or similar who will meet the cost of restoring the properties or the medical bills?

There are good rules and regulations already in place, maybe it would be better to get all of the interested / monitoring parties together to agree on the code of conduct and then publish a simple easy to understand set of rules (no more than ten or twelve) that the consumer can understand.

Then bring in the fuel suppliers (Gas companies) to take the rules as conditions of supply and to publish the rules on each bill or notification they send to the consumer as they are the ones who have the most contact with the consumer.
Early report from BBC: The family at the property in which two people died as a result to yesterday's Gas explosion, were carrying out DIY Gas work. Wow!
 
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If this accident indeed turns out to be DIY related, it should well and truly end this debate. Competent or otherwise, the words such as DIY and doing favours in the new proposed ACOP can and will be taken out of context, the result; death and destruction!
 
It's s very tragic incident but it is looking as though diy gas work could very well have taken place.

If ever there was an example to reinforce the argument for the reformation of Gas Safety in the UK, this is it!

http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/general-off-topic-chat/53216-gas-explosion-notts.html

For those of you who haven't done so, please go and sign the petition.

(Although one of the posts links back to this thread so I may have just created a quantum event in the time/space continuum...........)
 
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