Lever valve as main indoor stopcock - Is this ok?

[DarrenThomas]

My kitchen has a length of (I think lead) pipe coming out of the concrete floor with an old stopcock on it. When the boiler was moved when we bought the place the installer couldn't shut the water off at the valve and so installed a lever type above it. No idea why he didn't remove it first.

I've had someone come to quote for a job who told me that if the house were to flood and we needed to claim the insurance company would say that the lever valve it's the wrong type and not pay out.

Fact or fiction?

I only ask as the other guy didn't mention it at all. So either one is not paying attention to my house or the other is lying/out of touch with new regs. As a custard I have no idea!

 

[Deleted member 25704]

My kitchen has a length of (I think lead) pipe coming out of the concrete floor with an old stopcock on it. When the boiler was moved when we bought the place the installer couldn't shut the water off at the valve and so installed a lever type above it. No idea why he didn't remove it first.

I've had someone come to quote for a job who told me that if the house were to flood and we needed to claim the insurance company would say that the lever valve it's the wrong type and not pay out.

Fact or fiction?

I only ask as the other guy didn't mention it at all. So either one is not paying attention to my house or the other is lying/out of touch with new regs. As a custard I have no idea!

I would argue that its ok, but there is always the chance I could be wrong!

To support my own assertion I would argue that some types of lever valve are necessary, because they allow 'full flow' compared to traditional stop-taps, and this is important where flow rates and/or pressure is poor.

The type of lever valve is important and any valve fitted on a plumbing system must be listed in the 'materials and fittings directory'. Provided the make of your valve e.g. yorkshire, crane, etc is listed in the directory, then I am sure you could argue for its approval in some way.

 

[Howsie]

A stopcock should be a stopcock IMHO. You can fit a full bore lever after it for convenience if you wish.

 

[AWheating]

it should be a stopcock, but i have no idea if it can effect your house insurance. check your small print.

 

[Skelly87]

Ring your insurance company and ask

 

[Best]

Bit weird to say a lever valve won't pass insurance as it is actually a very easy valve to turn off & with a quarter turn. You have to do what they say though. Stopcocks usually are seized or too tight to turn off & often have no washer left in them.
Only issue with a lever valve is it would be too easy knocked on again by accident or deliberately, unless the lever was removed once off.

 

[acecharly]

Ring your insurance company and ask

Simples...!!!:wink_smile:

 

[DarrenThomas]

Ring your insurance company and ask

I shall, but I'm somewhat doubtful that a guy on the help desk is going to have a clue. I imagine that when you make a claim for water damage the person they send round has some background in plumbing.

Bit weird to say a lever valve won't pass insurance as it is actually a very easy valve to turn off & with a quarter turn. You have to do what they say though. Stopcocks usually are seized or too tight to turn off & often have no washer left in them.
Only issue with a lever valve is it would be too easy knocked on again by accident or deliberately, unless the lever was removed once off.

Ours is at the back of the sink cupboard so unless the kitchen has been ripped out it's not easy to knock at all, I can get to it easily though, just on my knees with my head under the sink which isn't traditionally how I scamper around the kitchen

I just didn't know if there was some specific rule in the book of plumbing that says "all main stopscocks in houses shall be xyz". I thought that plumbers might know.

 

[acecharly]

It has a high degree of control over the flow into a property. A lever valve has nowher near as much. I would if i was a betting man which i am, say that you would need a stopcock before any branch off, idealy in a location that was accessable. The fact that the old valve is still in is imaterial solong as its not leaking. It will merely be forming part of the line aslong as its open.

 

[JCplumb]

Insurance companies will do their best to worm out of paying you, in my opinion it isn't too far-fetched to believe that they would use this as an excuse to not pay out.
Get a plumber out to replace the lever valve with a proper stopcock to be sure (or to service your original stopcock and remove the lever valve completely), it won't cost the earth and you can then be certain that your insurers won't be able to worm out of it that way.
There's no problem having a new stopcock after the original one, it's common practice, especially where the original one is connected to lead.

 

[Guest123]

So if a full bore lever valve isn't covered by your insurance, what about the thousands of Surestop valves that have been installed all over the country? I'd have a lever instead of a Surestop anytime.

 

[SilentMike]

don't hold me to this but i got told can't remember where that lever valves cause
pipe reverberation

 

[Best]

don't hold me to this but i got told can't remember where that lever valves cause
pipe reverberation

And as we all probably know - stopcocks can themselves cause water hammer, usually when they are turned down a bit.

 

[Destroyer2813]

For insurance purposes the op technically has a stopcock first before his lever valve it don't work but there if they were to argue it

 

[Nostrum]

The shut off in the road these days is nothing more than a lever ball valve, i'm talking about the blue ones where a meter is fitted, quarter turn jobbies. So it would be pretty harsh to assume it is ok for the water board but no good for internal use surely?

 

[Mike Jackson]

I was told on my water regs course that full bore 1/4 turn lever valves were now allowed under the regs.

 

[barryplumb]

What about backflow prevention? a decent stopcock has backflow prevention, a lever valve doesn't. just take off the lever valve and fit a new stopcock. And don't leave it fully open or it will seize up like the old one has, turn back a quarter turn to keep it free and gaive it a full turn every once in a while.

 

[on31ll]

i was told and re told by the rep of the sure stop that you have to have a stopcock first then u can fit a lever valve afterwards. the rep for surestop said that the regs state there needs to be a stopcock before a surestop. but he did say weather it works or not is a different thing.

 

[electron]

Quote
My kitchen has a length of (I think lead) pipe coming out of the concrete floor with an old stopcock on it.

Read more: http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/p...ve-main-indoor-stopcock-ok.html#ixzz29h6tDkEo


If Lead Water Pipe, inform Water Authority, as they could possibly replace this for you.

I believe that a few years ago, my late mother was advised to have it changed, and that this would be a Free Service from United Utilities.

This would surely solve you're Stopcock problem.

 

[MrPlumber]

If a gas isolation valve has to be a lever valve i think it wouldn't matter if the water isolation valve is also a lever valve especially as gas is alot more harmfull. So long as the lever handle is turning downwards to stop gravity reopening the valve as they can sometimes work loose. I would still phone your insurance company to double check.

 

[kay-jay]

Perfectly fine as long as it falls to off. I fit em quite regularly for my elderly clients as they can easily isolate water in emergency..
Whack it with a walking stick etc

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Mike Jackson]

What about backflow prevention? a decent stopcock has backflow prevention, a lever valve doesn't. just take off the lever valve and fit a new stopcock. And don't leave it fully open or it will seize up like the old one has, turn back a quarter turn to keep it free and gaive it a full turn every once in a while.

A stopcock does not have backflow prevention. A loose jumper stopcock will act as a sort of non return valve but it is not approved as one and should not be used as one. It is also not approed as a stop tap under the water regulations.

Modern Surestop valves are WRAS approved and can be used as a main isolation valve in a property because they now have a positive off function built into the body.

A bit of research has come up with this gem from Arrow valves tutorials on the water regs.

Under the old Byelaws, the “stopvalve” to a property was normally to BS1010 or BS5433. These are of the screw down type (with rising headworks), which incorporate a rubber washer. The new Regulations no longer specify a type of valve and spherical “Ball” valves may be used. R2.8 states that any valve may be used providing it confirms to an appropriate British Standard (e.g. BSI Kitemarked), or appropriate European standard, or the Regulator’s specification (e.g. WRAS / KIWA UK) and it is suitable for the purpose.

G2.8 makes it clear that spherical valves may be used for above and below ground applications. Indeed the valves supplied by the water company in the meter box are normally spherical.

G2.7 states stopvalves, servicing valves and drain taps “… do not incorporate a loose washer plate”. The reasons are not explained but are likely to be over concerns of unwanted non-return characteristics - where expansion from a water heater is acceptable for example. Loose washer plates have also been known to vibrate causing unwanted noise.

For further clarification have a look at Arrow Valves Ltd - Water Regulations and have a read of tutorial 9 wher the above quote came from.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Fitted hundreds in new build flats but also there is a stopcock prior to the lever valve .

 

[TBServices]

Mike Jackson - pretty comprehensive answer there, well done mate.