URGENT Leaking hot water cylinder pipe

[bluemermaid]

Definitely a vulcan (factory still there stelrad rads made there now) the continental was physical smaller with a different control panel thermostat knob set in a panel at 45 degrees

I'd love to know exactly which model it is. Have just seen this advert, so looks like it isn't the Autostat model, as that one has controls on the outside. Ours doesn't have any controls at all on the outside.

 

[bluemermaid]

I'm old enough to know that's not a vulcan continental! Even older either a viceroy or a autostat first gas boiler I ever fitted as an apprentice.

Doesn't look like the Viceroy either: Viceroy GTS | Ideal Commercial Boilers - https://idealcommercialboilers.com/products/viceroy-gts It's a mystery!

 

[exedon2]

Ideal after they bought out Hattersley's re used the viceroy name on a range of commercial boilers (just to confuse matters)

 

[bluemermaid]

Ideal after they bought out Hattersley's re used the viceroy name on a range of commercial boilers (just to confuse matters)

Just took a pic of it with the door back on.

 

[bluemermaid]

Well, here I am, back again after 6 months. I am still in the same situation, (as in, I am still shielding, due to not being vaccinated and still have the leak in the cylinder). I got used to checking the drip tray I bought and emptying it regularly over the winter.

Over the summer and the warmer weather, I noticed the leak would slow right down when the boiler wasn't being used for long periods. So, I stopped using the boiler and just heated the water once a week, to keep the boiler in working order. I then started leaving it off for longer and running it once every 2 or 3 weeks.

Then one day, I noticed the pilot light had gone out, (it is a very old Vulcan Continental boiler from the 1970's). I looked up the instructions how to light it manually and was able to light it but it wouldn't stay lit. Every time I let go of the valve, the pilot light went out again.

I read the most common problem is a faulty thermocouple.

I have been in touch with a gas registered plumber and he could come and have a look for me (at both the boiler and the hot water cylinder) but I am still so nervous of catching the virus, especially, now we have the more contagious Delta variant.

Today, I tried to light it again and checked whether the flame was properly pointing towards the thermocouple metal end, as I had seen in videos online. I noticed the flame doesn't surround the thermocouple. The flame bends towards it at the bottom of the flame but the rest of the flame points upwards (ie vertically). It is very close to the thermocouple but more beside it, rather than surrounding it.

After the pilot light had gone out again, I touched the thermocouple end to see if it felt very hot and it did, so it is heating up but do you think it is heating up enough?

I don't see why the angle of the flame would have changed, as the boiler hasn't been touched inside for ages and the pilot light always stayed on before, so I don't see why it would suddenly be a problem.

When I have watched videos of lighting pilot lights, it looks like there is more than one flame? When I light it, there is just one flame. As I said, it bends a little at the bottom towards the thermocouple and the rest of the flame is vertical and is beside the thermocouple. The pilot light tube is angled towards the thermocouple but the flame doesn't engulf/surround the thermocouple metal tip bit.

Any ideas? I have seen the other possible problems in the videos but I don't want to touch anything else myself (eg cleaning the thermocouple tip, or the pilot light tube, or replacing the thermocouple with a new one).

Why would the pilot light suddenly go out when I stopped using the boiler for 2 or 3 weeks? It never usually goes out.

I have some pictures of the boiler I took a while ago but didn't take any of the pilot light chamber. I can try and do that another day if you need to see. Might be difficult to get a good photo of it, as it is right at the bottom, near the floor. I will attach the pictures I do have but I don't expect them to be of much use. You might enjoy seeing an 'antique' boiler though!

Thanks guys.

PS Sorry I didn't reply to your question back in February about the immersion heater you pointed out in the picture of the hot water cylinder Ric2013. There is no wire connected to it. I didn't even know it was an immersion heater, until you pointed it out. It has never been connected as far as I know.

The pilot light flame definitely doesn't hit the thermocouple tip like in this diagram. I wonder if it ever did though, as it hasn't been adjusted and no problems before now.

 

[Ric2013]

My feeling is the failure of the pilot light staying on is likely to be unrelated to your use of the boiler. Theromocouples don't last forever and sometimes become increasingly reluctant to work eventually failing altogether, or the pilot jet has slowly become blocked (not sure by what, but then I'm not a gas installer).

If you're that worried about contagion, and really want to do belt and braces, can you not find a gas installer willing to follow all the precautions to the letter, allow him/her in to do the work, keep the work confined to that room, and then vacate the room where the boiler is for 3 days?

 

[bluemermaid]

Thank you for your reply Ric.

I have read they are the most common causes.

The plumber said he could take a look tomorrow, so I am going to have to be brave and go for it, before the colder weather comes, when I will need the boiler.

Unfortunately, I won’t be able to avoid the room for 3 days, because it’s in the kitchen.

I won’t be able to confine the work to one room either, because I want him to look at the leaking hot water cylinder as well and maybe some problems with the radiators in other rooms too. I have saved up a lot of jobs, including a leaking dishwasher pipe as well!

He has promised to wear a mask and gloves and weather permitting, I am going to stay in the garden while he has a look tomorrow. I have also asked that we communicate through our phones while he is here. Of course, he will be here for longer when he does the actual work, so I might not be able to stay in the garden for that.
I am going to open all the windows for ventilation.

I am still so nervous! It will be the first time anyone has been inside the house since the pandemic began.

 

[bluemermaid]

Hi Ric and All

Just an update to say, you were right, it was the thermocouple. The plumber replaced it today and the pilot light stayed on. Hooray!

He emphasised the need for a whole new system. If I want to wait until I feel safer from Covid, (as it will take 3-4 days to install new system - he recommended a combi boiler), he can just fit a new hot water cylinder. He thinks that will be a waste of money though, as it will be thrown away when I have a new boiler installed.

I am leaning towards just the new cylinder until I feel safe but it will be just my luck if the old boiler finally conks out in the middle of the winter and then I will be kicking myself.

I have noticed a whistling sound now when the boiler is off. I asked the plumber if it's coming from the pilot light and he said yes. It never made that sound before but I didn't want to question what he was saying. Maybe someone here can explain why it is making that sound now, when it never did in the past?

I opened every window in the house and 2 doors while he was here and I stayed in the garden. He asked if his mate could come in and check the hot water cylinder, while he checked the boiler. I was reluctant to have 2 people in the house. One was bad enough but I said yes all the same.

I stayed out in the garden for ages even after they'd gone and then when I finally came inside, I left the windows/doors open for hours. I hope all the precautions have kept me safe!

 

[Ric2013]

Possibly he's also adjusted the pilot light and it's burning with a bigger flame hence the new whistling sound?

 

[bluemermaid]

I think he might have, because when he first checked the problem, I asked if the flame was hitting the old thermocouple enough to heat it and he said it was when the flame was on full. So I assume he had adjusted it at that point. I too think he may have left it on full. He said he bent the new thermocouple to sit in the flame properly but it sounds like he left the flame on full as well.

Again, I don’t like to question him but shouldn’t he turn it back down again? It wasn’t a small flame before and was working fine for many years before the thermocouple went bad. If the flame is on full, it will cost me more and is there any other reason it shouldn’t be on full? Could it cause detrimental effects to the boiler in time?

He has given me 2 quotes since, which I asked for. One for new hot water cylinder and one for system upgrade to combi boiler. Because of my fears of Covid, I will probably go for the hot water cylinder, as it will take less time inside the house and less people, (additional person to plumber and mate to remove asbestos flue. Also roofer for new flue but I expect he will stay outside but may need to come in to speak to the others), which lowers the risk a bit.

Do you think I am crazy to waste my money on a new cylinder, when I will have to upgrade the system when I feel safe, meaning the new cylinder gets thrown away? Maybe I could keep the boiler going for the lifespan of the new cylinder but would that be a crazy thing to do too? The only time I can remember the boiler going wrong for my parents over the last 40 years was when it was serviced a couple of times. Can’t remember what went wrong.

I will be getting the plumber to service it when he fits the new cylinder. I know it is a very inefficient old boiler. I am rather fond of it though for sentimental reasons! I can’t believe I am saying that when I spent so long trying to persuade my Dad to replace it but now my parents have gone everything in the house has sentimental attachment for me. Plus the fact, it has done us proud lasting so long.

I felt quite offended, when the plumber seemed to be taking the michael out of the old pump behind the boiler, (I didn’t even know it was still there, as new one fitted). He exclaimed to his mate, “oh my god, look at that! It’s like something from the second world war!” I found his tone quite rude. I am probably being over sensitive after losing my dear parents recently.

I am still so curious to know what model of Vulcan it is. I have seen Vulcan 50 on a big metal part inside and also a label saying cf 40/50. I can’t find anything online about the cf 50 model or what it was called. It was fitted by the Council before we moved in, in the early 1970s.

Sorry for long post!