lead lead lead

[secret squirrel]

My kingdom for some copper pipe.

I seem to be having a retro phase at the moment and this leads me to a problem that I have, (I think the joins on the pipe work I've seen are a work of art)

My potential customer is an elderly lady on her own and not too much money, the problem is a slight leak from a galvanised tank, the feed in not metric (or doesn't appear to be) and is in lead, the cold water feed to the cylinder is also lead, actually every pipe I saw was lead.......

In the back of my mind I want to replace everything in copper but the cost is huge.

My question is two fold,

1. Can I use lead lock to join copper to lead in this situation?

2. Can I then use a lead lock to join to the cold water feed on the hwc.

OK just one more, if this is ok will all this comply with water regs. Please bear in mind this house has had no work done on it for 50 years.......

 

[REDSAW]

so water regs have no bearing then?.
do what you have to do to the customers budget, as the tank wont last much longer anyhow and will cost a lot more when it fails.
also i think you will find you need to do a new o/flow too as this is perhaps 3lb and i dont know where to get l/lok for that, last one i did was anyway.

 

[justlead1]

Hi, Just undo back nuts on cold feeds from cistern, put new cistern in similar position, drill and refit cold feed. chances are main supply will bend about enough to fit to ball valve. Job done.

 

[Plouasne]

Fist thing first, and that is I do not think that the Water Reg are Retrospective, so I my view the lead could stay, also I think that the remarks about the overflow is a red herring

As Justlead says, just slowly ease the lead pipe into position, treat it gently and it should not fracture, if you could get a square or rectangular tank it might help in not having to move the pipe work too much, (are Sarena Plastics still making fibreglass CWST's 'cos to my view they were the best of the lot)

 

[dontknowitall]

I am/was not very good on the water regs details but something I learned was that any new fittings or pipes or whatever have to be in accordance with current regulations and old stuff can be left.

I feel the rules are a little ropey in places. For example, an electric shower has to have an isolation valve in the pipework. If replacing an old electric shower in theory this means you don't have to put a new isolation valve in but in practice it's probably best to do so, especially if it's easy.

At least that's how I understand the interpretation of the rules.

 

[REDSAW]

Fist thing first, and that is I do not think that the Water Reg are Retrospective, so I my view the lead could stay, also I think that the remarks about the overflow is a red herring

what do you mean a red herring plouasne

 

[Plouasne]

Fist thing first, and that is I do not think that the Water Reg are Retrospective, so I my view the lead could stay, also I think that the remarks about the overflow is a red herring

what do you mean a red herring plouasne

That the over flow could stay what ever because any water running down an overflow would be running to waste and not be drunk

 

[stevetheplumber]

My kingdom for some copper pipe.

I seem to be having a retro phase at the moment and this leads me to a problem that I have, (I think the joins on the pipe work I've seen are a work of art)

My potential customer is an elderly lady on her own and not too much money, the problem is a slight leak from a galvanised tank, the feed in not metric (or doesn't appear to be) and is in lead, the cold water feed to the cylinder is also lead, actually every pipe I saw was lead.......

In the back of my mind I want to replace everything in copper but the cost is huge.

My question is two fold,

1. Can I use lead lock to join copper to lead in this situation?

2. Can I then use a lead lock to join to the cold water feed on the hwc.

OK just one more, if this is ok will all this comply with water regs. Please bear in mind this house has had no work done on it for 50 years.......

theres no obligation in water regs to remove existing lead and yes you can join on to it by mechanicl joints ie lead locks
are there any vales up there with unions you can connect to?
if you cant get the overflow out you can some times cut it back and slide a plasic one through it
should be a union on the back of the ball valve which will swop over to the new one
threequarter leadlocks often need the lead shaving down a little to get them to fit as you probably dont own a shave hook use a stanley knife sideways or a rasp and some sandpaper to get it smooth again as o rings dont seal to gouged suraces all that well
lead pipe is pretty flexible when it comes to lining it all up just dont try and bend it sharp
hope this is a bit more help

 

[secret squirrel]

Thanks for all the fast replies, I now have a few more options.

I must remember to be gentle, I thought it would be unfair and a little unnecessary to remove all the lead.

Just before I left this evening there had been another plumber around who apparently advised the woman to run the tap every now and again it'd be fine!

He apparently stuck his head up the loft and that was it, the other strange thing was this galvanised tank was in a wooden crate packed high with sawdust, I can only presume that this was how things were insulated when it was installed.

 

[Puddle]

Steve is spot on
Only thing would add is to make sure the lead pipework attached to new plastic tank is well supported,as if not,will distort tank and could cause to split

 

[Plouasne]

Saw dust was use as insulation in those days, I had to change a galvanised tank on a flat roof, in the late '60's, it had a matchboard cladding with 6" of packed saw dust between the tank and boarding, it was march time and blowing a gale, needless to say there was not much saw dust put in the sack, which was supposed to be collecting the saw dust, it looked like a blizzard was blowing, the way the wind took the saw dust

The tank was for a central heating of an office block, and the only way the system could be filled was by back filling the system via the boiler drain cock, and a hose of the mains

 

[david williams]

lead locs can move and fail ,find an old plumber to teach you to wipe a joint

 

[Bernie2]

Interesting that it had a wooden frame packed with sawdust around a metal tank, its usually a slate tank that has a wooden frame and sawdust.

 

[johnmcginty]

lead locs can move and fail ,find an old plumber to teach you to wipe a joint

I thought you could'nt do wipe joints anymore as for water regs?

 

[Puddle]

I thought you could'nt do wipe joints anymore as for water regs?

Well technically you can not but seeing how an old lady lives in the house, with probably no visiters, you should be Ok because she probably will not be around long enough for any lead poisoning to take effect

 

[Plouasne]

I thought you could'nt do wipe joints anymore as for water regs?

So to take this to its logical conclusion, if what you say is right, it would mean a complete rip out and redo in copper or plastic, if there was a leak on a lead pipe, where before a patch could be wiped on the pipe to repair it, which to my mind if what you say is true, is a load of "cobblers"

 

[Puddle]

So to take this to its logical conclusion, if what you say is right, it would mean a complete rip out and redo in copper or plastic, if there was a leak on a lead pipe, where before a patch could be wiped on the pipe to repair it, which to my mind if what you say is true, is a load of "cobblers"

We live and operate in a world of regulations that are a 'Load of cobblers'

But that we must do

If you go to a pin holed leaking lead pipe,you have to cut out the section,fit a lead lock each end and a bit if copper in between,officially

And now there are to many clip board operaters going around ,that if you do not ,it will come back and bit you on the bum

Have taken a 3m length of lead out with six lead locks on it,3 repairs

 

[Plouasne]

We live and operate in a world of regulations that are a 'Load of cobblers'

But that we must do

If you go to a pin holed leaking lead pipe,you have to cut out the section,fit a lead lock each end and a bit if copper in between,officially

And now there are to many clip board operaters going around ,that if you do not ,it will come back and bit you on the bum

Have taken a 3m length of lead out with six lead locks on it,3 repairs

All I can say to that, is thank Christ I do not live in that country any more, on my side of the water, they are a bit more pragmatic, when it comes to problems like that

 

[stevetheplumber]

All I can say to that, is thank Christ I do not live in that country any more, on my side of the water, they are a bit more pragmatic, when it comes to problems like that

thats the trouble here mate every ones scared of their own shadow due to oue zeal in implementing rules and regs we now have a generation of men who belive lifting anything over 35 kilos will leave them crippled for life and therefore able to go on the sick for ever
so we import labour from around the world
our generation is gone for ever plousanne the idea of moving anything heavey with a few rollers and a block and tackle now requires a team of scaffolders a risk assesment and a crane

 

[Plouasne]

Well I would say that 35kgs top weight, is better than the 2cwt sack of corn, the house of lords ruled was what a 16 year old youth was able to carry with out strain, in the late 1800's

 

[helpsy]

I think you may find it's now down from 25kg to 20kg for a male......15kg female.All weights being max you can manually lift...you're suppose to only lift what you feel comfortable with,upto the above limits.
So maybe you will need mechanical lifting aid to lift 25 kg bag of cement!!!!

 

[Plouasne]

I think you may find it's now down from 25kg to 20kg for a male......15kg female.All weights being max you can manually lift...you're suppose to only lift what you feel comfortable with,upto the above limits.
So maybe you will need mechanical lifting aid to lift 25 kg bag of cement!!!!

.

Yer all going soft, will be asking for a crane to help you lift a pencil next

 

[helpsy]

I blame our continental friends when changing imperial/metric...maybe they miscalculated!!!!

 

[Plouasne]

I blame our continental friends when changing imperial/metric...maybe they miscalculated!!!!

No they made it easer all I have to do now is use my fingers to count, with the yuk measurements I had to use my toes as well

 

[leakylea]

if it is only a small hole in a galv tank drill a hole in it and put a nut and bolt in it with washers on, done this a few times, the repair can last for years and is cheap and quick

 

[REDSAW]

i think some gay or woman came up with these lifting limits.

i used to cary 16tons a day on site on my sholders of big contracts when i was 20.
being made to do something is one thing being able is another. if i want to get on with it i dont wait for anyone i just do it if its posible in my own opinion no one elses.
50 kg is mine whimp!1!

 

[Plouasne]

Just a cautionary tale, about what happened to me 20 odd years ago

I was getting a full roll of 18" wide code 5 lead from Grahams in Liskeard, and the two idiots couldn't lift it so started to jamb a bar down the centre of the lead and damage it, so I told them to pish off and I would do it, I swung the roll onto my shoulder, and thought nothing of it, the next day I was having chest pains, I put up with it for a day and then went to the doctors, there he said, indigestion 84%, torn chest muscle 15% ,heart attack 1%, but just to be sure I will give you an ECG, next thing the nurse comes in and says the doctor wont be long he's just ringing for an ambulance, it turns out that I have an abnormal heart rhythm, I spent 2 days in the coronary care unit, before the doctors there decided that I had torn chest muscles

20 years on it turns out that now, I have a slight hernia of the chest about 10cms long, and that was because I lifted about 70odd kgs of lead and turned at the same time

 

[radswilldo]

Just a cautionary tale, about what happened to me 20 odd years ago

I was getting a full roll of 18" wide code 5 lead from Grahams in Liskeard, and the two idiots couldn't lift it so started to jamb a bar down the centre of the lead and damage it, so I told them to pish off and I would do it, I swung the roll onto my shoulder, and thought nothing of it, the next day I was having chest pains, I put up with it for a day and then went to the doctors, there he said, indigestion 84%, torn chest muscle 15% ,heart attack 1%, but just to be sure I will give you an ECG, next thing the nurse comes in and says the doctor wont be long he's just ringing for an ambulance, it turns out that I have an abnormal heart rhythm, I spent 2 days in the coronary care unit, before the doctors there decided that I had torn chest muscles

20 years on it turns out that now, I have a slight hernia of the chest about 10cms long, and that was because I lifted about 70odd kgs of lead and turned at the same time

You truly have gone native, you cant be English, maybe a dress wearer or hobbit or even plastic paddie. Dont see what all the fuss is about, lifting wieght should come natural to all men, I carry cast iron baths on my back upstairs, arrange the feet over my neck and shoulders.

 

[Plouasne]

You truly have gone native, you cant be English, maybe a dress wearer or hobbit or even plastic paddie. Dont see what all the fuss is about, lifting wieght should come natural to all men, I carry cast iron baths on my back upstairs, arrange the feet over my neck and shoulders.

Yep and proud of it, slung my passport away, took late French retirement, aged a tad over 62, and I get more than if I had stayed i, the uk and worked another 3 years, a happy bunny I am, Merci France, et Merci Monsieur Le Président

 

[peteheat]

You truly have gone native, you cant be English, maybe a dress wearer or hobbit or even plastic paddie. Dont see what all the fuss is about, lifting wieght should come natural to all men, I carry cast iron baths on my back upstairs, arrange the feet over my neck and shoulders.

Yer spoofing in the wrong place everyone here knows the best way to carry a cast iron bath upstairs is to stand into it