Is my neighbours soil/waste pipe allowed to be over my driveway

[WC1]

Sounds like you're both being a bit unreasonable. Try not to let the dispute blow up

We havent talked to them about the pipe? Its not been mentioned to anyone so no dispute and we havent been unreasonable as we havent mentioned anything to them. I think you may have misunderstood that. Its a general question as been concerns to leak recently and me just being sure or the pipe being allowed to be there. The only issue thats come up is them using it as an objection to prevent us building. Although this has annoyed me and my husband, we have not spoken to them regarding it yet and we are just taking the general steps with planning as im not out to cause arguments. We are doing everything through proper channels. We have had good relationship with the neighbours so its not a dispute at the moment.

As far as I can read, they are objecting to your extension and you are objecting to their pipe. Both the extension and the pipe seem fairly reasonable to me. I would go round and speak to them, taking a bottle of something or some flowers etc to start the conversation off with. Good luck.

 

[oz-plumber]

If the pipe is in you property, you have the right to have it removed at no expense to yourself.

Get the neighbours to prove that they had permission to install their waste pipe on your property.
There would be other options of running the drain, but this was the cheapest / easiest way of doing it.

Next thing the neighbours might do is claim a 1m section of your land as common property due to the drain and access to clean and maintain the drain.

 

[03CM83]

As far as I can read, they are objecting to your extension and you are objecting to their pipe. Both the extension and the pipe seem fairly reasonable to me. I would go round and speak to them, taking a bottle of something or some flowers etc to start the conversation off with. Good luck.

Hi, thank you for reply. They are objecting to the extension but we haven't actually said anything about pipe to them as of yet, there's been no issue with them regarding it so far as we haven't mentioned it to them. I just asked this question in case it should prevent us building, so that I know where I stand should discussions about it arise. I'm not intending on asking them to move it at this point. Plus they've objected to extension at the back for reasons that don't even affect them, basically being petty even after we have done loads for them over the years, which is very sad and upsetting, so no way will I be taking them flowers haha. However that's a whole separate issue not related to the pipe. I've really just asked about the pipe to prepare myself for any possible fall out or planning objection. For now we have just kept to ourselves and leaving everything to architect as we are not prepared to get in to confrontation over anything with them. I'm just the type of person who likes to know where I stand on issues before I go ahead making claims that may not be true

 

[king of pipes]

Tread carefully bide your time it will work in your favour

 

[03CM83]

If the pipe is in you property, you have the right to have it removed at no expense to yourself.

Get the neighbours to prove that they had permission to install their waste pipe on your property.
There would be other options of running the drain, but this was the cheapest / easiest way of doing it.

Next thing the neighbours might do is claim a 1m section of your land as common property due to the drain and access to clean and maintain the

You may not even need full planning the rules were relaxed by the government in 2020 for people to extend their property strict rules still apply and you still need building regulations have a look at this site online . Kop

We need full planning due to 2 storey work at the back, however you would be correct that technically that section could be built without permission, I hadn't thought of that. All building regs would certainly be followed as we have a very good and experienced architect, who is very strict to staying within guidelines thankfully.
Thank you so much for your help and comments so far

 

[Ric2013]

If the pipe is in you property, you have the right to have it removed at no expense to yourself.

Get the neighbours to prove that they had permission to install their waste pipe on your property.
There would be other options of running the drain, but this was the cheapest / easiest way of doing it.

@oz-plumber The pipe was there before the OP bought the property. I would imagine an easement (implied or acquired) exists.

This might make interesting reading:

Easements

particularly the reference to the 1925 housing act which includes the term (2) A conveyance of land, having houses or other buildings thereon, shall be deemed to include and shall by virtue of this Act operate to convey, with the land, houses, or other buildings, all outhouses, erections, fixtures, cellars, areas, courts, courtyards, cisterns, sewers, gutters, drains, ways, passages, lights, watercourses, liberties, privileges, easements, rights, and advantages whatsoever, appertaining or reputed to appertain to the land, houses, or other buildings conveyed, or any of them, or any part thereof, or, at the time of conveyance, demised, occupied, or enjoyed with, or reputed or known as part or parcel of or appurtenant to, the land, houses, or other buildings conveyed, or any of them, or any part thereof [my emphasis]

How old is your neighbour's bathroom conversion, out of interest?

Plus, unless a boundaries agreement exists for the property, in the UK it may be hard to prove the exact line of the boundary. Land registration maps do not, and are not intended to, indicate the exact legal boundary, so if the OP wants to go along the legal route of ordering the neighbours what to do, the OP will almost certainly find him/herself on a sticky wicket.

 

[03CM83]

@oz-plumber The pipe was there before the OP bought the property. I would imagine an easement (implied or acquired) exists.

This might make interesting reading:

Easements

particularly the reference to the 1925 housing act which includes the term (2) A conveyance of land, having houses or other buildings thereon, shall be deemed to include and shall by virtue of this Act operate to convey, with the land, houses, or other buildings, all outhouses, erections, fixtures, cellars, areas, courts, courtyards, cisterns, sewers, gutters, drains, ways, passages, lights, watercourses, liberties, privileges, easements, rights, and advantages whatsoever, appertaining or reputed to appertain to the land, houses, or other buildings conveyed, or any of them, or any part thereof, or, at the time of conveyance, demised, occupied, or enjoyed with, or reputed or known as part or parcel of or appurtenant to, the land, houses, or other buildings conveyed, or any of them, or any part thereof [my emphasis]

How old is your neighbour's bathroom conversion, out of interest?

Plus, unless a boundaries agreement exists for the property, in the UK it may be hard to prove the exact line of the boundary. Land registration maps do not, and are not intended to, indicate the exact legal boundary, so if the OP wants to go along the legal route of ordering the neighbours what to do, the OP will almost certainly find him/herself on a sticky wicket.

Hi, thank you for reply. I have no intention of 'ordering' my neighbours to move their pipe. I feel a lot of people commenting have misunderstood this, so just to clarify, for now i am JUST trying to find out if it is allowed to be there. There are no disputes, no arguments have taken place with neighbours. Id also like to clarify that we have always allowed the neighbours access for all maintenance work they have ever asked for with absolutely no objections. I'm just purely trying to understand the laws and rights to home owners in this situation so that i can be sure everything is worked out fairly should any issues arise. I am concerned about the possibility of the pipe being the reason planning gets refused, in which case if that should happen, i'm sure you would agree it would be unfair to be prevented from building on my own land due to someone else's pipe. And as mentioned above i do have concerns about toilet waste ever ending up on my land. There is also often a horrible strong smell from the pipe which is not pleasant. So its just research at this point.
Although pipe was there before we purchased the house, i have read that in a house sale any easements have to be noted on the deeds and this is not on ours as we have checked, which implies its unlikely anything was ever granted to allow them an easement to our property for the pipe

 

[king of pipes]

As I've said proceed with your plans and see how it develops you didn't originally state that you are extending two storey at the rear of your property as well as the side ? So you will need full planning due to the size you are increasing the property your neighbours may have taken offence to this ? .The coming and going of builders and the noise generated for months and months may be a factor ? As to the soil pipe In my opinion you have little to no chance of getting that moved without a long costly legal argument and most likely a major fall out with your neighbours so tread carefully with that . Kop

 

[Ric2013]

Hi, thank you for reply. I have no intention of 'ordering' my neighbours to move their pipe. I feel a lot of people commenting have misunderstood this, so just to clarify, for now i am JUST trying to find out if it is allowed to be there. There are no disputes, no arguments have taken place with neighbours. Id also like to clarify that we have always allowed the neighbours access for all maintenance work they have ever asked for with absolutely no objections. I'm just purely trying to understand the laws and rights to home owners in this situation so that i can be sure everything is worked out fairly should any issues arise. I am concerned about the possibility of the pipe being the reason planning gets refused, in which case if that should happen, i'm sure you would agree it would be unfair to be prevented from building on my own land due to someone else's pipe. And as mentioned above i do have concerns about toilet waste ever ending up on my land. There is also often a horrible strong smell from the pipe which is not pleasant. So its just research at this point.
Although pipe was there before we purchased the house, i have read that in a house sale any easements have to be noted on the deeds and this is not on ours as we have checked, which implies its unlikely anything was ever granted to allow them an easement to our property for the pipe

Hi, No, I get it - you aren't ordering them: OZ plumber seemed to suggest you should do this and my disagreement was with his suggestion and not what you had written.

You'll note that if their waste pipe encroaches on your land, so does their rainwater gutter!

I doubt the pipe will prevent you gaining planning permission. Even if the pipe is on your land, I would imagine (at worst) you'll have to re-route it as others have suggested. Having sat through a few planning meetings (they can be quite amusing), I've seen it before where a neighbour has raised a large number of possible objections to a development - none of which were valid planning issues - and where the development has been approved nonetheless. Sometimes neighbours get funny if you contact the planning office before discussing with them, but some people aren't worth discussing with and will object for the sake of it. The planning committee will be used to this sort of thing, so don't let it put you off.

As far as your neighbour's objection is concerned, try to let them see that you take their objection as their doing their civic duty in informing the planning office of all circumstances they feel relate to your proposed development and, after all, it is the planning office that makes the decision. In theory (not always how it works, mind, especially when the number of objections becomes a political force), the planning office should ALWAYS block an unsuitable development even if the neighbours like it, just as they should ALWAYS allow a suitable development that a neighbour objects to.

As far as the presence of an easement or not being noted on the deeds is concerned, I'm not sure how that would apply to services of this nature, otherwise my neighbour could insist that my water supply pipe (under their garden since at least 1961 and which neither of us knows the exact route of) be removed (there must be millions of similar cases), which makes little sense in the light of a right obviously acquired by prescription if not by any other mechanism. The answer is, if this is going to become an issue, you need legal advice (tip: you may well have a free legal advice helpline included in your home insurance policy or trade union menbership).

With regard to a potential toilet waste leak, well, it's obvious your neighbours must maintain that pipe so that it does not leak. Obviously the neighbouring roof must also be maintained. A leak is possible in the same way as it is possible that a slate could fall off their roof - it should not happen, but the fact that it could happen if something went wrong is not a reason to remove that part of the building.

Now you mention a smell, however, the question is whether is comes from the open vent above the roof (which could be normal if that's the only open vent which serves several houses including possibly yours: your drains may well be interdependent) or whether the horizontal pipe is leaking. If, as I assume, the first time you mentioned the possibility of a leak to your neighbours is after you started considering building where the pipe now is, this is unfortunate: the neighbours may now think you're making the whole thing up which is most unfortunate. It may be worth a call to your council's Environmental Health officer for suggestions.

 

[Murdoch]

I'm not sure that the neighbours wall is the actual divide between your properties. If they have a roof and gutters above then the vertical drop from these may be the dividing line and in which case the pipe would be in their property

BTW, gaining planning doesn't give you rights actually to build and if access is required from their property , they can decide NOT to permit you or your contractors onto their land - and if this is the case there is absolutely NOTHING you can do about it