Insulating pipes in wall

[duffsparky]

Hi All,

Is it a good idea to insulated the copper pipes that go to my shower where they are chased into the wall. The chases will be made good, possibly with drywall adhesive as they are deep, and then tiles over? If it is, what's the best way to do it - thin pipe foam or hemp lagging, I wondered about using the thin (2mm ish thick) packing/wraping foam sheet material used in place of bubble wrap.

If not, can I just tape them, with say packing tape, to keep any salts off the copper?

 

[AWheating]

tape then up in insulation tape (double wrap) and then dry wall adhesive them over there full length.

 

[duffsparky]

tape then up in insulation tape (double wrap) and then dry wall adhesive them over there full length.

Do you mean 19, 25 or 50mm electrical insulation tape or do you mean a plumbing insulation tape that insulates the pipes thermally, if so, have you got any names for it.

Cheers.

 

[SimonJohns]

I think he ment the electrical plastic insulation tape. To prevent corrosion. You could also sleeve the pipe in overflow pipe to prevent corrosion.

Just make sure your fittings are water tight and valve works before covering over


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AWheating]

i ment electrical type insulation tape.

 

[duffsparky]

I've been told by another plumber that you can get some flexible conduit, like the electrical stuff that work well and also give the pipes room to move when heating up and cooling down.

So I'm gonna look into that before I go too far.


Cheers.

 

[Gray0689]

15mm x 9mm foam lagging

 

[AWheating]

movement would ideally be avoided.

 

[Gray0689]

movement would ideally be avoided.

Why
I prefer a bit of movement

 

[PlumbBobBob]

a small amount of movement is good to allow for fitting, but not too large an amount which could lead to failure due to rubbing or flexing of joints etc.

 

[duffsparky]

Re: movement.

I'm confused about this. As a sparks, allowing for movement in conduit due to thermal expansion and contraction, especially plastic, is a good thing if not essential. If you have pipes that are surface fixed around corners for example, and the fixings are too close to the corners thus leaving very little room for movement, then I can see that the joints would have to take the stress and may subsequently fail. Surely this would be the same for pipes embedded in solid walls and floors, if there is no room for expansion and contraction all the stresses would be transfered into any bends and elbows and other joints? My shower pipe drops will have (Record bender) bends at the top, which are not embedded, with elbows behind the mixer and (Record bender) offsets in between which are embedded.

AWHeating - I'm not arguing but could you explain a bit further why "ideally movement should be avoided", it seems at odds to me; but then I'm not a plumber, just a sparks.

Thanks.

 

[AWheating]

To avoid noise and add security to the shower valve. how is the valve being secured? if with a couple of little screws into tile, or a bar mixer with no fixings then movement on the pipes could cause problems in years to come. Even if you clip top and bottom it will be better than nothing and would avoid any vibrations. Thats my take on it anyways.

cables are different in that electrons move around but in pipework water moves around with pressure and flow, clipping is not only for support but also to avoid vibrations/noise. You may need to allow for expansion on long pipe runs like you would on conduit but not on short drops of pipework to showers.

 

[Gray0689]

Pipework chased in to Walls needs lagging even if just hairfelt lagging
That's my opinion

 

[GrahamM]

Im with Gray0689. It is good practice to insulate all pipework. Secure in place to minimise movement, but not too tightly that will restrict expansion/contraction.

 

[herbert]

is denso tape not the best to use.. thats what i use.. but its minging to put on lol

 

[Gray0689]

is denso tape not the best to use.. thats what i use.. but its minging to put on lol

Don't use the stuff very much only for underground stuff make sure you have gloves on lol

 

[duffsparky]

I'd have thought the grease in Denso would leach through to the surface leaving an oily patch on the walls, that is unless you put a covering over it like PVC electrical tape; which I've had to do a lot of in the past. I've got a few rolls of Denso in my lock up but it only comes out for real special occassions, it's a tad like copper grease in that it gets *king every where if you're not real careful but that's by the by.

Anyway the general concensus would appear to be -insulate the pipes-, but with what? If I use thin 9mm(?) thick foam insulation that will make the chase depth 40mm minimum which is a bit deep for a 100mm insulating block wall, see -- Over chased wall - Builders & Builders Merchants - DIY Forum - Diy Doctor -- for the story on that. So I guess I would have to use the hairfelt (hemp?) lagging, but how thick should I put it on; and would I need to tape over the hairfelt to stop chemicals in the making good passing through the holes in the hairfelt backing plastic? Alternatively, what about running the pipes through PVC flexible conduit/duct, which I've seen done on pipes run in concrete floors? 15mm pipe fits through 20mm flexible conduit and 22mm pipe fits through the 25mm, but not if there are joints in the pipe.

Sorry this is a bit long.

Cheers.

 

[Gray0689]

Well I use 15mm by 9 mm lagging on 4" Walls if you got less use hairfelt shinny side out taped in place every foot or so

 

[AWheating]

If the walls load bearing you do not want to take too much out of it, whatever lagging you use still tape the pipe with insulation tape before you lagg it.

Also consider that when plastering up loose/soft lagging it will increase the chance of loose/poor plastering moving and cracking.

 

[Gray0689]

If the walls load bearing you do not want to take too much out of it, whatever lagging you use still tape the pipe with insulation tape before you lagg it.

Also consider that when plastering up loose/soft lagging it will increase the chance of loose/poor plastering moving and cracking.

Belive me ive done it thousands of times and no wall ever fell down

 

[AWheating]

if you stick to building regs then you can chase 1/3 of brick thickness. with load bearing walls you have a higher chance of cracks and movement due to the load especially if its the old black breeze (stuff from power station waste used in seventys) . you would not get away with anything deeper than 1/3 and 1/6 Horizontal if nhbc/buildings inspector is any good, but alot are not! LOL

i guess you have to use your own judgement, from job to job.

 

[duffsparky]

If the walls load bearing you do not want to take too much out of it, whatever lagging you use still tape the pipe with insulation tape before you lagg it.

Also consider that when plastering up loose/soft lagging it will increase the chance of loose/poor plastering moving and cracking.

Not arguing but why tape the pipes if they are lagged?

The chases are already done and I've cocked up there coz I've gone too deep, but I've been advise to make good with drywall adhesive and if necessary fix some expanded metal to the sides. Apparently the drywall adhesive sticks like ????, goes well hard, very tough and you can get a good finish on it.

 

[AWheating]

although copper generally has a high resistance to corrosion with many building materials its always better to protect it from the chance of corrosion, it does get corroded well by some older breeze blocks for example, especially in damp conditions.
to protect the copper from corrosion it would be safer to cover the actual pipework with tape, there will then be no chance of contact with anything. Air felt lagging wont do a very good job and foam lagging has openings and joints.

For something thats will cost a few pence and only take 1/2 min i cant see a reason not to do it?

you are correct, board adhesive is very good, it what i use to cover over chased in gas pipes.

 

[kay-jay]

Belive me ive done it thousands of times and no wall ever fell down

ever ended up next door? :biggrin:

 

[kay-jay]

Belive me ive done it thousands of times and no wall ever fell down

<br>
<br>
ever ended up next door?&nbsp;<img src="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Biggrin" smilieid="104" class="inlineimg">

 

[Gray0689]

Not yet lol