insert for 10mm copper pipe

[ggman]

good morning all.
Just a curiosity! I am using 10 mm pipe copper pipe to connect to a radiator valve.
I have some ordered some 10 mm insert brass insert, but they seems very loose
when inserted in the pipe, i measured up with a vernier and their external diameter is 7.75 mm, the pipe used is 10 mm with 0.7 wall thickness but the internal diameter measured up with the vernier is 8.3 mm that give me an internal tolerance between pipe and insert of 0.55 mm.
Will it be correct? Or will the compression fitting crash the copper pipe?
Please help
Thank you
ggman

 

[paulyoung666]

i may have misunderstood , but why are you trying to use an insert with copper pipe , can i assume your connection is a standard 'nut & olive' fitting

 

[ggman]

They're danfoss valve wich came with a fracture adaptor for 10mm soft copper pipe which i was told need to be internally supported with the mentioned insert.

 

[paulyoung666]

okies , i will back out as i know not

 

[kirkgas]

i have never heard of an insert being req'd for copper, danfoss trv reducer kits are ok if the pipe wall is nice and round, occasionally they leak if the pipe is a bit bashed up, wrap a couple of turns of ptfe tape over the reducer, fit it into valve and tighten it enough to stop it pulling out, but try not to overtighten as this causes more problems

 

[tamz]

You can get inserts for soft copper but i have never used or seen anyone else use them.

A bit like an imperial - metric adaptor for 1/2" - 15mm.......pointless

 

[Plumbstar Tom]

cant you use normal copper or is it too late?

 

[buff]

okies , i will back out as i know not

im with you on this one
bob

 

[Toddyplumb]

I have never used an insert on copper to danfos TRV's . Who / where does it say you need to use them ?

 

[ggman]

Hi toddyplumb
Thank you for your reply.
I am more than happy to hear that I don't need any insert.
But I was told that's a good practice to use insert in soft copper pipe when using compression fitting as the soft copper will squash or deform
I actually purchased the pipe and the insert from BES, on their catalogue is actually stated "insert for 10mm copper pipe, reccomended when using compression fitting.
But I am happy with your expert suggestion.
Regards

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Hi toddyplumb
Thank you for your reply.
I am more than happy to hear that I don't need any insert.
But I was told that's a good practice to use insert in soft copper pipe when using compression fitting as the soft copper will squash or deform
I actually purchased the pipe and the insert from BES, on their catalogue is actually stated "insert for 10mm copper pipe, reccomended when using compression fitting.
But I am happy with your expert suggestion.
Regards

sounds like you have bought inserts for plastic pipe 10mm copper does not require inserts it sounds like your using a reducing set in which case just use ptfe,bosswhite etc you should be fine

 

[tamz]

Technically you should use inserts on table W or Y but i have yet to see or hear of them used on anything other than solar.

 

[Toddyplumb]

Right BES page 139. Funny how they only sell 10mm inserts yet do 8mm pipe as well as 10.
Futher investigation required .

 

[tamz]

The only time i have ever come across inserts for copper was when we did some solar jobs around 2 years ago. It was on a local authority job and as we were subbies, the materials were supplied. Coiled soft copper with brass inserts. At the time i thought this must be what the setup is when doing solar in copper as we had only ever used the flexible stainless stuff.
While doing the job i got talking to an architect who "put me right" on it and informed me that inserts "should" always be used with soft copper.
News to me that one
I and everyone i have ever met have been doing it wrong for the past 35 years.......BIGGER

So my conclusion on this is a few years back some smart person decided that soft copper MAY allow too much compression of the pipe and these inserts were just the thing. The specifiers took this to heart but those on the front line know through experience it is bollux

I may be wrong

 

[tackleburger]

Table x copper pipe is termed half hard which is most likely whats in there so bin the insert. I you are using softer tube you would need the insert. I have never seen soft copper in a house yet and since it's 99% pure it would be more expensive and us plumbers wouldn't put up with that.

 

[Toddyplumb]

But your 8 and 10 is table W (soft) .
This is an interesting one for gas safe : 8mm connections to fires !!!!!!!!
Right , the UK copper board say for type A compression a support liner should be used on soft copper OVER 12MM DIAMETER , sorted

 

[ggman]

Hi
Happy to have this situation sorted.
From what u r saying actually for waht u find out, looks like i don't need the damned inserts I am more than happy as they will restrict the flow having an iternal diameter of 6mm.

 

[Toddyplumb]

Yep no need for them