Incomplete boiler installation - what to do?

[Deleted member 117526]

Hi,

I'm a homeowner and have just had a new system boiler and unvented hot water installation, which we had done at the same time as a kitchen extension. We engaged the heating engineer directly and have been co-ordinating his work with the building work. The job is mostly complete and functioning - we have heating in most of the house and we have hot water. But the new underfloor heating manifold has not been connected so we have a very cold kitchen. We are also missing the immersion heaters (which failed). And we need an installation certificate to get building control sign-off for the kitchen extension.

Unfortunately, our heating engineer is not turning up to finish the work. He keeps promising to come but later makes an excuse or simply fails to turn up. We have been chasing him for weeks. I don't understand why, because there is very little left to do and we still have the final payment of £1000 to make (which we'll be happy to do once the work is complete).

I contacted Gas Safe but they said that unless there was a gas leak they weren't interested. I contacted a couple of other heating engineers but they were reluctant to get involved with someone else's project.

We just want the job finished. We are fed up with a cold kitchen as it is winter and we have a baby to look after.

How should we proceed?

Thank you in advance for your advice.

 

[Scott_D]

Have you checked he is gas safe registered?
Could he not be attending because of the virus?

 

[Aquarius]

I contacted a couple of other heating engineers but they were reluctant to get involved with someone else's project.

Just so you know, it’s illegal to knowingly sign off someone else’s work, so that’s why they’re reluctant

 

[exedon2]

Be interested to know other side of this.
Obviously a complete breakdown in communication has there been issues between your engineer and the builder's?
Just out of interest I take it its a screed floor ? If so how longs it been laid ? It needs to dry completely before starting to slowy build heat up.

 

[Brambles]

Are you sure that you have contacted Gas Safe and not Cadent? The latter deal with immediately unsafe situations, whilst the former look at installations that do not meet legal requirements. Cadent are more likely not to be interested unless there is a leak or products of combustion escaping. However, In my experience they quickly visit and investigate every complaint.

In your case, unless the gas boiler has been incorrectly fitted, is operating unsafely, or has been put into service by an unregistered individual. Gas Safe won’t have a lot to offer you, they will however investigate the company / person who undertook the work, if any of the above three points are relevant.

You really need to resolve this directly with your installer.

Provided that the installer is Gas Safe ( and G3 for the unvented) Registered and has completed the gas / G3 installation correctly he / she has no legal obligation to register the installation with Building Control.

If you cannot resolve it, Building Control will examine the installation and if satisfied certify it, but it is not cheap - circa £250 for the boiler and a further £250 for the unvented (that is West Oxfordshire). Generally they are only willing to undertake that work if it is an older installation where registration was missed, but is now needed to allow a house sale to proceed.

 

[Chuck]

This is a breach of contract dispute. Try to talk with the installer and find out what the issue is. If you have legal advice / cover attached to your home insurance contact them. Otherwise Citizens Advice, Trading Standards, etc.

In principle, if the installer refuses to finish the work you can employ someone else to complete it, redoing anything needed for GS. If it costs more than the £1000 you have retained then the original installer owes you a refund.

If the issue is serious illness you'll probably find that another company will be more willing to help out with completing the work than if the original guy just walked away.

 

[Dr Doolittle]

Just so you know, it’s illegal to knowingly sign off someone else’s work, so that’s why they’re reluctant

quote the law please....it is law right?
[automerge]1607074022[/automerge]
The sign off is for building control...capita men (gas safe tax payer) can self certify becuase they have a very strong parlimentary lobby and make huge payments to sitting governments (all verifiable facts). So your approach now is direct to BC. You will have to pay a retrospective fee as well as the usual fees and they will issue the BC certificate THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED..NOTHING ELSE. Use the £1000 you have held back to cover this cost...job done. For good measure, I'd spend another £35 through Northampton county court for breach of contract...just to give him a kick

 

[Brambles]

At least with Gas you have to option to go to Building Control - for a micro generation certificate - it is the installer or nothing

 

[Dr Doolittle]

At least with Gas you have to option to go to Building Control - for a micro generation certificate - it is the installer or nothing

spending £35 in northampton CC is very little money for maximum pain...quick and easy to do..and if they are a Ltd company, they must employ a solicitor so you know its going to cost them £00's just to argue with you LOL. Takes minutes on-line.

 

[Aquarius]

quote the law please....it is law right?

Gas safety installation and use regulations 1998

 

[Deleted member 117526]

Be interested to know other side of this.
Obviously a complete breakdown in communication has there been issues between your engineer and the builder's?
Just out of interest I take it its a screed floor ? If so how longs it been laid ? It needs to dry completely before starting to slowy build heat up.

The builders and the heating engineer have rubbed each other up the wrong way a bit in the past. But the building work was completed weeks ago so they are out of the picture.

The flooring has been down since about June, so it's not a screed issue.

I doubt it's a Covid issue either, since he was happy to install the boiler during the last lockdown.
[automerge]1607089409[/automerge]

Are you sure that you have contacted Gas Safe and not Cadent? The latter deal with immediately unsafe situations, whilst the former look at installations that do not meet legal requirements. Cadent are more likely not to be interested unless there is a leak or products of combustion escaping. However, In my experience they quickly visit and investigate every complaint.

In your case, unless the gas boiler has been incorrectly fitted, is operating unsafely, or has been put into service by an unregistered individual. Gas Safe won’t have a lot to offer you, they will however investigate the company / person who undertook the work, if any of the above three points are relevant.

You really need to resolve this directly with your installer.

Provided that the installer is Gas Safe ( and G3 for the unvented) Registered and has completed the gas / G3 installation correctly he / she has no legal obligation to register the installation with Building Control.

If you cannot resolve it, Building Control will examine the installation and if satisfied certify it, but it is not cheap - circa £250 for the boiler and a further £250 for the unvented (that is West Oxfordshire). Generally they are only willing to undertake that work if it is an older installation where registration was missed, but is now needed to allow a house sale to proceed.

Yes it was definitely Gas Safe we spoke to. But the issue is not with the boiler nor gas supply, so they won't get involved. Yes he is Gas Safe registered.

We are dealing with Building Control, so I'm not asking the heating engineer to register it for us but I do need a safety certificate.

Thank you for the suggestion that Building Control might certify it. That would be a last resort, I think.
[automerge]1607089541[/automerge]

Just so you know, it’s illegal to knowingly sign off someone else’s work, so that’s why they’re reluctant

So what would I do if he had been knocked down by a bus, for instance? There must be a way for completing and certifying work in that instance.
I doubt he's been hit by a bus, however.
[automerge]1607089742[/automerge]

This is a breach of contract dispute. Try to talk with the installer and find out what the issue is. If you have legal advice / cover attached to your home insurance contact them. Otherwise Citizens Advice, Trading Standards, etc.

In principle, if the installer refuses to finish the work you can employ someone else to complete it, redoing anything needed for GS. If it costs more than the £1000 you have retained then the original installer owes you a refund.

If the issue is serious illness you'll probably find that another company will be more willing to help out with completing the work than if the original guy just walked away.

Yes I think this may be the best approach. I may get some legal advice and perhaps a formal letter will spur action. If not, the difficulty is finding someone willing to finish the work.
[automerge]1607091009[/automerge]

This is a breach of contract dispute. Try to talk with the installer and find out what the issue is. If you have legal advice / cover attached to your home insurance contact them. Otherwise Citizens Advice, Trading Standards, etc.

In principle, if the installer refuses to finish the work you can employ someone else to complete it, redoing anything needed for GS. If it costs more than the £1000 you have retained then the original installer owes you a refund.

If the issue is serious illness you'll probably find that another company will be more willing to help out with completing the work than if the original guy just walked away.

Yes I think this may be the best approach. I may get some legal advice and perhaps a formal letter will spur action. If not, the difficulty is finding someone willing to finish the work.

quote the law please....it is law right?
[automerge]1607074022[/automerge]
The sign off is for building control...capita men (gas safe tax payer) can self certify becuase they have a very strong parlimentary lobby and make huge payments to sitting governments (all verifiable facts). So your approach now is direct to BC. You will have to pay a retrospective fee as well as the usual fees and they will issue the BC certificate THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED..NOTHING ELSE. Use the £1000 you have held back to cover this cost...job done. For good measure, I'd spend another £35 through Northampton county court for breach of contract...just to give him a kick

Punchy! I like it.

 

[Aquarius]

So what would I do if he had been knocked down by a bus, for instance? There must be a way for completing and certifying work in that instance.

That wouldn’t be unfortunate. Yes there will be a way, and perhaps im thinking of a different situation. There are ways to commission someone else’s work, but it would also need to be gone over start to finish to make sure nothing is incorrect regards to regulations. I could be wrong, but Gas safe may need to know about it as well.

 

[Dr Doolittle]

That wouldn’t be unfortunate. Yes there will be a way, and perhaps im thinking of a different situation. There are ways to commission someone else’s work, but it would also need to be gone over start to finish to make sure nothing is incorrect regards to regulations. I could be wrong, but Gas safe may need to know about it as well.

Gas safe have NO LEGISLATIVE POWER...THEY ARE A PRIVATE COMPANY...CAPITA....They collect tax payments in exchange for self certification....BUILDING CONTROL....Nothing else matters...always has been, always will be. As a private home owner, you can fit a boiler yourself.How? well its a matter for BUILDING CONTROL...NOTHING ELSE MATTERS. Capita pay money to sitting MP's and mandarins so they can then charge for the "SELF CERTIFY" route. Building control MAY appoint someone to inspect but as they would have to stand the cost they never do.

 

[Aquarius]

I thought it was HSE Adam? I’m sure you’ll shout some kind of response back to me though.

 

[Brambles]

A bit of a non argument - it propbably all hinges on whether or not the individual can demonstrate competence.

Historically prosecutions under the GSIU Regulations are brought by the HSE. The HSE placed a long term contract with a Capita Group Company to manage and administer Gas Safe on their behalf.

Whilst installing a gas appliance in your own home is, in my view a grey area, - the GSIU Regulations would still apply, which in essence means that the individual undertaking the work needs to be able to demonstrate competence. (Regulation 3 (1).

Having said that, if something goes wrong and the HSE commence a prosecution how the legislation is interpreted ( in England) is a subject for the Courts to decide.

As recent (2020) cases have shown ( with Gas Safe Registered individuals), if an issue arises, demonstrating competence alone is not an effective defence.

I don’t really understand why anyone would want to try to circumvent a system which has been put in place to protect people ( including the installer) and property.

 

[Brambles]

Posted twice by mistake!

 

[Aquarius]

If HSE doesn’t apply to domestic properties, then why is there loads of information regarding domestic properties including that of landlords?