illegal to open case unless gsr

[jonw]

can someone show me where it is written in law that it is illegal for a homeowner to remove the case of their own boiler unless they are gsr? not touching any gas parts just looking for leak in cold water supply.

 

[Riley]

The reasoning behind it is that on many boilers the case forms part of the combustion seal.

As a consequence if you remove it you have no means to test to make sure it's been installed again properly

 

[jonw]

The reasoning behind it is that on many boilers the case forms part of the combustion seal.

As a consequence if you remove it you have no means to test to make sure it's been installed again properly

Thanks that is a proper useful answer.

 

[Riley]

I'm not sure from typed wording if that's sarcasm or not but that is the reason it's pretty cut and dry

 

[jonw]

I'm not sure from typed wording if that's sarcasm or not but that is the reason it's pretty cut and dry

No definitely not sarcasm. It was a really useful answer because now I understand why which is better than just knowing the rule. Many thanks.

I am a truth seeker and would never use sarcasm.

 

[jonw]

The reasoning behind it is that on many boilers the case forms part of the combustion seal.

As a consequence if you remove it you have no means to test to make sure it's been installed again properly

Riley, I dont suppose do you happen to know if that is the case for the greenstar 24/28i junior? No probs if not I'll ask my gas safety guy on his next visit.

 

[AlexGas]

View attachment 27389

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Riley, I dont suppose do you happen to know if that is the case for the greenstar 24/28i junior? No probs if not I'll ask my gas safety guy on his next visit.

Yes it is as there's no secondary case for the gas parts

 

[jonw]

Yes it is as there's no secondary case for the gas parts

Many thanks Shaun.

 

[jonw]

View attachment 27389

Yes that is a nice picture. Obviously I know working with gas is dangerous. Which is why I asked the question which was to yield a discussion to figure out what constitutes 'gas works' as apposed to plumbing. Riley's answer superbly and succinctly cut straight to what I needed to know. Your picture is clever, even funny but not actually very helpful.

 

[AlexGas]

View attachment 27390

 

[jonw]

OK that one actually is funny Thanks and point taken.

 

[jtsplumbing]

OP has a point, its is own boiler, in his house, and this is a very grey area, can he do what he wants in is own house ? and who would enforce his decision if he removed the case, countless people do it ! I don't think that these rules are made clear to the general public, and has anyone ever been prosecuted for doing what the OP wants to do with there own property, a lot of these rules only seem to apply if its being done for gain (Being charged for) I stand to be corrected !!

 

[Dotty]

You're probably referring to your thread that I closed down.

As Riley said above, many cases form part of the combustion seal. We don't expect you to know which ones and, to be honest, we can't be bothered to wade through the hundreds of manufacturers instructions to answer each query.

So we take a wide and sweeping view on the matter. Same goes with pcbs as many of these need setting up after replacement.

At the end of the day we try to take a responsible position with regards to your safety which occasionally means telling you to stop and get someone in.

Normally people this happens to get snippy and either pm us or spam us resulting in a ban.

However, you've asked a reasonable question and accepted the answer. Thank you for that.

 

[Riley]

No worries

 

[jonw]

You're probably referring to your thread that I closed down.

As Riley said above, many cases form part of the combustion seal. We don't expect you to know which ones and, to be honest, we can't be bothered to wade through the hundreds of manufacturers instructions to answer each query.

So we take a wide and sweeping view on the matter. Same goes with pcbs as many of these need setting up after replacement.

At the end of the day we try to take a responsible position with regards to your safety which occasionally means telling you to stop and get someone in.

Normally people this happens to get snippy and either pm us or spam us resulting in a ban.

However, you've asked a reasonable question and accepted the answer. Thank you for that.

Nicely said croppie, I understand you get some right shirty nutters on forums
I'm booking a guy to come and do it next week. And now I know more than I did this morning I can politely inform people in the pub that they are wrong. I bet most people don't know that the case can be a functional component. Cheers chaps.

 

[Dotty]

Think I might sticky this thread for the benefit of future users.

 

[snowhead]

and has anyone ever been prosecuted for doing what the OP wants to do with there own property,

Causing Death or serious injury is an offence, no matter what the method used.

 

[Dotty]

GSIUR 26/9 covers it. No grey area afaic.

26/9 Where a person performs work on a gas appliance he shall immediately thereafter examine—

(a)the effectiveness of any flue;

(b)the supply of combustion air;

(c)its operating pressure or heat input or, where necessary, both;

(d)its operation so as to ensure its safe functioning,

and forthwith take all reasonable practicable steps to notify any defect to the responsible person and, where different, the owner of the premises in which the appliance is situated or, where neither is reasonably practicable, in the case of an appliance supplied with liquefied petroleum gas, the supplier of gas to the appliance, or, in any other case, the transporter.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Causing Death or serious injury is an offence, no matter what the method used.

All well and good , but it wont stop Mr average looking up how to fix his boiler or whatever they want to mess around with, the information is out there, the necessary parts are sold to whoever has the cash no questions asked, Its all well and good quoting this rule and that but most people don't know or care ! We all know quite a few people that do gas repairs, install there own boilers/fires or whatever and has long has they can buy what they want it will never be stopped, go into any DIY outlet, Plumbers, merchants, internet sites, gas products are available to everyone, no one askes what experience or qualifications do you have , just give me your money ! and to repeat it will never be stopped, because they say it would be restrictive practice,

 

[hammers4spanner]

Causing Death or serious injury is an offence, no matter what the method used.

HSE will not investigate anyone working on their own boiler in their own house not unless they set fire to the place.

 

[Dotty]

All well and good , but it wont stop Mr average looking up how to fix his boiler or whatever they want to mess around with, the information is out there, the necessary parts are sold to whoever has the cash no questions asked, Its all well and good quoting this rule and that but most people don't know or care ! We all know quite a few people that do gas repairs, install there own boilers/fires or whatever and has long has they can buy what they want it will never be stopped, go into any DIY outlet, Plumbers, merchants, internet sites, gas products are available to everyone, no one askes what experience or qualifications do you have , just give me your money ! and to repeat it will never be stopped, because they say it would be restrictive practice,

I see where you're coming from now.

Ray has often stated the rationale behind the lack of restrictions regards the sale of gas appliances and parts, namely that large housing associations and that ilk like to build their own stock and also buy in bulk. They would campaign against a change in the law.

What I would suggest is that HA's, etc, are licensed to buy gas appliances in bulk. Everyone else needs to display their gsr card.

 

[Darren Jackson]

It is written in the Gas Safety (installation and use) Regulations 1998.
Part 1, section 3(1) - No person shall carry out work in relation to a gas fitting unless they are competent to do so. In England only a gas safe registered engineer is deemed as competent.

So to take off a boiler case you would be breaching these regulations as most boiler casings have a gas tight seal on them and upon replacement it has to checked to make sure it is back on correctly with no leakage. Hope this clears it up for you.

 

[jtsplumbing]

It is written in the Gas Safety (installation and use) Regulations 1998.
Part 1, section 3(1) - No person shall carry out work in relation to a gas fitting unless they are competent to do so. In England only a gas safe registered engineer is deemed as competent.

So to take off a boiler case you would be breaching these regulations as most boiler casings have a gas tight seal on them and upon replacement it has to checked to make sure it is back on correctly with no leakage. Hope this clears it up for you.

All well and good ! what % of the general public have a copy of the gas regs, have read them or even give a toss, whenever money is involved common sense goes out the window, if they can fiddle with it they will have a go , how meny members of the public have been prosecuted for messing with there own gas appliances ??

 

[Darren Jackson]

All well and good ! what % of the general public have a copy of the gas regs, have read them or even give a toss, whenever money is involved common sense goes out the window, if they can fiddle with it they will have a go , how meny members of the public have been prosecuted for messing with there own gas appliances ??

Totally agree mate, But the question was "can someone show me where it is written in law that it is illegal for a homeowner to remove the case of their own boiler unless they are gsr?" so I have tried to show where it is written. As long as any gas related product is easily available to any Tom, Dick or harry then we will never stop the Home owner or anyone else from DIYing.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Totally agree mate, But the question was "can someone show me where it is written in law that it is illegal for a homeowner to remove the case of their own boiler unless they are gsr?" so I have tried to show where it is written. As long as any gas related product is easily available to any Tom, Dick or harry then we will never stop the Home owner or anyone else from DIYing.

This has always been the same ever since corgi started years back, all these rules only apply to us, the paying members, no one else gives a S--t , do you realise that we pay into this club every year so that if we make a mistake we can prosecute ourselves, we pay out thousands in fees & training, and then have to compete with others who don't care about the rules, and have been doing it for years, if they do get caught not a lot happens to them, But no one has had the balls (CORGI or GS) to do anything to stop gas products being sold on the open market ! maybe things will change when we get out of the EU and we can make our own rules & laws. But don't think I will see it in my life time.

 

[hammers4spanner]

The fact is the HSE have no power to go onto private land so if a homeowner decides to be an idiot and tamper with an appliance their is nothing the HSE can do. The minute a contractor becomes involved completely different matter.
As Joe says we basically pay to prosecute ourselves, the majority around here don't care a toss if your GSR if they can save 100 quid by getting a plumber they will do exactly that. I have phoned gas safe about illegal installers and all they said if the customer complains then we will take action . However who will complain if they are saving money??

I had a job last year where the house had a large gas leak under the floor however it was all laminate flooring , i said i need to disconnect meter she moaned like hell about it but agreed.
Got a call couple weeks later can i run a new main , turned up she had reconnected everything!!! More concerned about here shower in the morning than blowing the neighbourhood up.

 

[jtsplumbing]

The fact is the HSE have no power to go onto private land so if a homeowner decides to be an idiot and tamper with an appliance their is nothing the HSE can do. The minute a contractor becomes involved completely different matter.
As Joe says we basically pay to prosecute ourselves, the majority around here don't care a toss if your GSR if they can save 100 quid by getting a plumber they will do exactly that. I have phoned gas safe about illegal installers and all they said if the customer complains then we will take action . However who will complain if they are saving money??

I had a job last year where the house had a large gas leak under the floor however it was all laminate flooring , i said i need to disconnect meter she moaned like hell about it but agreed.
Got a call couple weeks later can i run a new main , turned up she had reconnected everything!!! More concerned about here shower in the morning than blowing the neighbourhood up.

Correct and a point I have been making for years, We must be the only industry that pays to police & prosecute ourselves, countless rules & regulations that only seem to apply to us that are constantly changing, in order to make it easy for Gas Safe to cancel our club membership & HSe to prosecute us !! Its impossible to know the number of people that do gas work in there own homes, and it can-not be stopped ! Does any-one think the amount of money GS spend every year on GS week really makes a difference to what Joe public does ! NO its just a PR exercise for our benefit, to make us think that they are making a difference, As its been pointed out if Mr average can save a pound he will , He's not interested if your GS or not, in all the years that I have held a Gas card I have only been asked to show it once ! and that was only for ID they wasn't interested what else was on it! In most cases first question is How much will it cost !! NOT ARE YOU GS. and if they think they can DIY you wont even get a call.

 

[Darren Jackson]

How true, I have only been asked once when It was CORGI and again only once since GSR for my I.D. it never fails to amaze me how trusting the public are with their lives and property. The money spent on gas safe week is totally to try and pacify the gsr members that they are actually doing something to promote the use of genuine gsr engineers !!!

 

[Last Plumber]

It's all very true and I fully and totally agree.

Just a point to raise though !

By having this conversation on a forum where anyone can read it, does that not confirm to the DIYers that they might be OK to take the case off and crack on.

Should this not be moved to gas safe reg only forum ? ?

Only thinking of us ?

 

[Dotty]

I might split the thread later....

Or do something else magic....

 

[Last Plumber]

I might split the thread later....

Or do something else magic....

Very fair and very clever, like it !

 

[Dotty]

This is the unedited version from http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/central-heating-forum/92508-illegal-open-case-unless-gsr-2.html

 

[ShaunCorbs]

just a thought might be worth getting rid of post 22-23 as gen public might think its been edited to scare them/ make it look worse you get my drift