Ideal boilers, disgusting tactics!!

[REDSAW]

need thoughts on this scenario.

some of you may have read i attended an 85year old customer of mine who had an issue with her 3 year old ideal logic+ (not installed by me).
as it was still in warranty i told her to contact IDEAL directly for a call out. they turned up 10 days later!
after they left, she called me to say the boiler is fine but there was only 100v returning to boiler from the controls, unknown to me the service tech had turned off the boiler as the vertical flue in loft had insufficient brackets. this was on a thursday but i couldnt attend until the following tuesday, this left her 2 weeks with no heat or water.

the tech had isolated the gas supply and capped it, took the fuse out of the spur (and pocketed it!), turned off the flow return and cw feed, un-wired the boiler, and issued an I.D notice on the basis of insufficient flue clipping (why does he need to climb into loft?). if he had looked properly there was a clip on the joist, another 1.5m up then 1.5m to ridge tiles! (i rearranged clips & fitted another to 1m spacing) fitted a new drayton prog and stat and all's well.

following on from this, she then received a call from them pushing a service contract for the boiler and gas fire cheeky gits.

today she rang me in distress, they have sent her a letter saying that IDEAL want to make an inspection at the house to see if the flue has been done correctly otherwise they will not continue with the remaining 4 year warranty!
oh yes, they also want £125 for this visit or they will void it!!!!!!

this is disgusting tactics if you ask me and i wont be installing any of their boilers in the future.

any views?

 

[Rickster123]

Sounds like bully boy tactics. Do you know your local rep? Failing that I'd ring ideal on her behalf and kick up a stink.

 

[cdodds2004]

IDEAL ARE A DISGRACE!!!! SIMPLE AS THAT! I guarantee they are losing money on the long warranties on ****e boilers so they are re couping as muich $$$$$ as possible!!

Worcester are about the only manufacturer who are actually interested in fixing boilers and not looking for reasons to switch off or void the warranty!

 

[Riley]

I have to say this is why I have stopped fitting them of late I've not had a direct instance myself however I have had several mates who have had run-ins with their engineers

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

I agree with Adam, get onto the local Rep and kick some butt!!

If he doesn't want to help then Strangle him with a flue bracket!!

 

[Last Plumber]

I'd be on to rep !
Get him face to face.
Always worked for me before.
I can't be doing with this high and mighty garbage from manufacturers engineers.
There are a lot of patronising, lazy, jobs worths in that bunch who irritate the hell out of me.

Some good too though, can't tar all with same brush

 

[quality]

Yes if that's all true it stinks

 

[SimonG]

Worcester are just as bad.

The big boys are having their fingers burnt on these over extended boilers. They need to find any issue at all to void them to minimise losses.

 

[REDSAW]

just took this from their ism manual:

Note - Flues over 1 metre long
It is recommended that a support
bracket is fitted for every 1 metre of
extension pipe used and a bracket
should be used at every joint, to ensure
pipes are held at the correct angle.

tell me where it says condemn boiler and void warranty and leave her with nothing because he dont like the clip spacings!
it does say 'recommended' right?

 

[townfanjon]

The logic van and man was at Hargreaves in Brighouse today, I wish I had seen this post then , I would be intrested to hear His opinion

 

[Masood]

That stinks. Even if the distances weren't exactly to MI that's no reason to leave an old person cold. That "engineer" needs a serious talking to..

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Don't get why he didn't just leave a note to you saying that as its no skin of his nose as he hasn't fitted it

but tbh that sounds like normal ideal / villant cus service / trying to seal customers

 

[REDSAW]

just called in to her house and got the letter and warning notice.

the notice says 'flue in loft inadequately bracketed'=A.R. on what basis?
he did not ask for permission to turn off either as clearly stated on their form, let alone jigger the installation!

 

[mfgs]

An insufficiently clipped flue is AR, its not ID though. Sounds like he has gone well over the top with how he "made safe" by capping gas and removing fuse etc.

 

[Stoney Ground]

just called in to her house and got the letter and warning notice.

the notice says 'flue in loft inadequately bracketed'=A.R. on what basis?
he did not ask for permission to turn off either as clearly stated on their form, let alone jigger the installation!

Now you have the information and evidence, contact local rep and ask her to arrange a meeting with the service division manager.

Explain everything clearly (did you take before and after pics) ask him to write a letter of apology to the customer and that it should be in a card attached to a Xmas hamper.

 

[Last Plumber]

Now you have the information and evidence, contact local rep and ask her to arrange a meeting with the service division manager.

Explain everything clearly (did you take before and after pics) ask him to write a letter of apology to the customer and that it should be in a card attached to a Xmas hamper.

That's what I would be doing.

 

[unguided1]

What's even more worrying is the big boys are buying up all the smaller companies, only be two left soon vaillant and Worcester!!!!!

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Dont get why if it passed a flue integrity a warning notice to get it sorted was not issued

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Martin,spread the word on ideal,post this in the FB groups as well,ideal should be ashamed,as if the Logic did not have enough issues

 

[newcastle phill]

Sounds disgraceful. Been a while since i did an ideal, tend to do baxi nowadays

 

[REDSAW]

Martin,spread the word on ideal,post this in the FB groups as well,ideal should be ashamed,as if the Logic did not have enough issues

what groups? not that good on FB.lol

 

[REDSAW]

 

[newcastle phill]

That ****ing stinks

 

[oz-plumber]

Send all the info to the local newspaper.
You may get lucky and get it noticed by some TV station.

As for leaving an older person without heat and hot water for that period of time, for a very minor - non life threatening - fault, Ideal and the tech who condemned it should be made accountable.

The letter should be posted nation wide - disgusting!!!

 

[hammers4spanner]

Been having the same issue with Ideal down this way myself ,
Whats the rep going to do ? They are bottom of the chain .

Shirking warranties massively down here and trying to charge under warranty , blaming workmanship etc etc etc

Fitted a worcester yesterday least i know any issues and all good .

 

[unguided1]

Seems to me ideal are trying to claw some money back on every boiler they've sent out, reminds me of BG,s flushing scam a few years ago! I wonder if they ideal engineer is commissioned base!

 

[ed209]

I have just cancelled a ideal logic 24 + combi that I was going to install tomorrow and getting a WB 25i junior instead after reading this, I have noticed myself that Ideal customer service is going down hill fast You have a long wait now to get through on the phone to technical it used to be very reasonable, but my biggest problem was I fitted a new Logic + couple months ago that had a leak on heat exchanger and was told it would be ten days before one of there engineers could come out, this boiler was brand new never even got to fire it up, took of wall returned to merchant and exchanged for another one.
Have also heard the rumour about not honouring warranties using installation problems as excuse, but to be fair on the odd ocassion I have called them out (leak from diverter valve) they have sorted it

 

[Ray Stafford]

I am seeing the new Chief Commercial Officer of Ideal on Monday 14th, and I plan to show him this thread.

I don't want to start a "flame Ideal" thread, but would be happy to discuss genuine concerns with him, and even to pass on descriptions of individual experiences, so if you have a (printable!) message for the senior management team at Ideal, please post here, or PM me if your story contains information not appropriate for the public forum.

Ray

 

[jonnyswamp]

I am seeing the new Chief Commercial Officer of Ideal on Monday 14th, and I plan to show him this thread.

I don't want to start a "flame Ideal" thread, but would be happy to discuss genuine concerns with him, and even to pass on descriptions of individual experiences, so if you have a (printable!) message for the senior management team at Ideal, please post here, or PM me if your story contains information not appropriate for the public forum.

Ray

Vaillant always were my boiler of choice, but I moved to Ideal (Logic + and Vogue) as I thought they were better value for money
Haven't fitted millions, but the ones I have, have all been good
If I have a problem with an under warranty boiler I have fitted, I would want it sorted next day (or at least a manu visit next day)
Vaillant have always been great around my neck of the woods (South East Wales) and Worcester for that matter
Will be watching this thread with interest as I have 3 to fit before Crimbo and I have specced Ideals (when my trotter gets better)
I hope the problems with Ideal were isolated and not nation wide

 

[Stoney Ground]

Have only had one issue with the, 20 or so I have installed in the past 3 years.

This was last Thursday, new Logic System 30 had no hanging bracket. Called Ideal and was on hold for Customer Service eventually hung up. Phoned local Rep (Janet Fenwick) who was on way back from Gosport, she checked in her car as she thought she had one. Called me back and arranged to meet me at the training centre at Winnersh on her way home.
So at 6pm I got my bracket, problem solved thankfully.

 

[joni os]

Thank you Ray for taking up the issue. Not only is it the distress to a 85 year old lady.Blaming an overzealous service engineer ignores the subsequent £125 demand letter, which gives credence to it being the direct result of a company policy.
Mandatory requirements should be clear and separate from recommendations. The issue of ID notices is for safety, inappropriate IDs, issued for commercial reasons, leave us all less safe.

 

[Stoney Ground]

Thank you Ray for taking up the issue. Not only is it the distress to a 85 year old lady.Blaming an overzealous service engineer ignores the subsequent £125 demand letter, which gives credence to it being the direct result of a company policy.
Mandatory requirements should be clear and separate from recommendations. The issue of ID notices is for safety, inappropriate IDs, issued for commercial reasons, leave us all less safe.

The letter is probably a standard response to the engineers ID on a boiler, not a human thing.

I've had a Vaillant engineer accuse me of taking a part off a boiler and removing it from site when I did a power flush,because I didn't know how to put it back. It was an air inlet duct twist in and one screw, not that I needed to remove it.

WB have market share more boilers more engineers, I don't think anyone comes close.

The question is ratio of engineer to product, which will alter around the country.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Tbh Ray I don't think you will get far with the commercial officer, don't think he will have much sway with the domestic techs/ engys

But worth a try

 

[REDSAW]

someone has already contacted me via pm

 

[Riley]

From ideal??