Help with soldered joints

[easyt]

Whilst I have replumbed and fitted several kitchens and several bathrooms I have not used a soldered joint more than a few times (30 years ago). Most of the joints have been under units or in rear of units where access with a blowlamp in case of leaks would have been problematical and so I have used compression joints (and the odd push on).

I will be installing a thermostatic mixer onto a stud wall. Probably copper pipes down and elbows with 1/2 inch bsp to suit mixer.

I suppose that these joints are best soldered. As a rank amateur with regard to soldered joints what is the best course and equipment.

Should I use endflow or solder ring? Cheapish blowtorch adequate for a one off job.

(I might just get a professional to do those two joints as I have someone coming in to remove an oil tank but should really do it myself..)

Easy T

 

[Bernie2]

Reasonably easy to do!

The thing most first timers seem to do though, is apply to much heat and burn the fitting.

Make sure its clean and flux it well, and the flux does not bung up the inside bore of the pipe. Some say only apply flux to pipe, so that any surplus flux squeezes out as you push the pipe into the fitting, then apply heat gently evenly on pipe about 2" (50mm) away from fitting and let the heat conduct into the fitting.

Possibly best to use solder ring fittings if your new.

When you see the ring of solder around the neck of the fitting take heat off straight away. If you let some of the solder come out, touch up with lead free solder.

Clean off excess flux with warm water and wash pipe out to get rid of swarfe or excess flux, if you can before fitting.

You can also hire or buy electric soldering tools that clamp around fitting to melt the solder if you want.

 

[WaterTight]

Yes, all of that. Or just use compression again.

 

[hiretools]

Dont use pre soldered joints they are c*** get urself a roll of lead free solder some wire wool (to clean the copper pre fluxing) a small blowtorch 25 quid and a pot of flux it may seem alot but all are reuseable so later down the line you get the value out of the expense. 1) the clean the pipe with wire wool. A bit of tissue will remove the little bits of wool from the copper tube then add the flux near to the edge using a capillary action (that means circular). 3) put your fittings on. 4) extend the solder out about 5 inches and dip the end into the flux. 5) solder the two together when the solder leaves a gray circle your nearly good to go so hold the solder just past the centre of the copper tube away from you and pull back when hot enough this will create the circle around the tube. Wallop!!!!!! your good to go damp cloth will bond the two as the copper fitting cools. Hope this helps as the problem with pre- soldered is they tend to head for the lowest point whilst very hot!!!!!

P.S use end feed fittings. or e/f

 

[easyt]

Thanks Bernie and WT. I wasn't sure that an inaccessible compression joint was a good idea. Thought soldered might be more reliable if/when I have to remove/replace the mixer at a future date ??

On another point. When fitting the shower mixer with its 1/2 inch BSP thread do you guys generally use ptfe tape (as I would) or a jointing compound or a mixture ??


Also I have heard of people using ptfe tape with compression joints??

 

[hiretools]

you can use ptfe tape on compression but not needed for new fittings just for older compression for re-use.

 

[easyt]

Thanks HT. I don't begrudge the cost of a blowtorch. I dropped mine and broke the head about 7 years ago. Although I wouldn't have regular need for one there has been a few occasions in that time when they would have been handy. (Seized tap, seized bolts etc.)

you can use ptfe tape on compression but not needed for new fittings just for older compression for re-use.

Thanks HT. Is that to put over the copper pipe if indented by a hard material olive? Presumably not over the olive. Can you clarify.

Thanks Easy T

 

[Bernie2]

Yes PTFE is probably best rather than jointing paste. Some shower guarantee's are void if you use jointing paste.

Just a few wraps of PTFE in front of the olive really is all that is required.

If you look at at how an olive seats in a fitting, its only the front edge of the olive that forms the seal with the fitting, so it makes sense to put the PTFE on here, to make up for any unevenness in the metal to metal faces.

Got to admit, I think PTFE looks amateurish all over a fitting. But in the case of a shower whose pipework will not be seen I would say use it. But make sure none goes inside to part block the pipe.

 

[easyt]

Thanks Bernie

 

[Guy]

Don't be scred to solder it's really not that hard, it can be a bugger on a vertical connection but then the solder usually runs down to the bottom and only requires the one solder anyway.

Horizontally, just put the torch as close to the pipe as you possible can to get it heated quickly then with the blow torch heat your soldering iron then just rub it on to your pipe and then apply heat again then the solder runs round much quicker. This is a nice quick way to ensure you get a nice tidy ring.