Gas Safe Register , value for money or not ?

[< 0.004 = :-)]

Just wondering what other members think about CAPITA running our registration scheme , why we need them or not ?

In Scotland , Corgi used to have 7 inspectors , since CAPITA took over they ve reduced that to 4.
Even Corgi were tight with their freebies, but at least you got an unsafe procedures handbook out them and a card update if you resat your acops or acs through the year free of charge.
With the latest news about the big utilities companies making £125 per customer per year from supplying gas and leccy , how much out off the annual membership we pay to CAPITA through Gas Safe Register is pure profit and going to fat cats on their board and shareholders.
Any profits could and should be used to our benefit, to promote using Qualified Engineers through adverts, improve vetting off new members, sending out hard copies of TBs instead off having to use the GSR website, that s like using dial up again sometimes it that slow.

Seems to me us Gas Engineers are seen as cash cows from the likes of CAPITA , to milk us for every penny they can . £10 for a card if you resit through the year, or saying they haven t got any card holders in stock going back to april is just not good enough and stinks imo.

What are the alternatives ? Are we they only trade that requires statutory membership off a profit making organisation just to carry out our work ? Is this not a breach of Employment Law ?
Other professions require membership of their professional bodies , but they are not overseen by the HSE with the power to appoint the contract for running their registration scheme, yet they re carrying out high risk.
Even doctors are self regulated by the BMA , so why , do Gas Engineers need a PLC like CAPITA , whos chairman is on +£10m year including bonuses to run our registration scheme?

 

[Gray0689]

Can't complain about capita my wife works for them and on great money and perks not in gassafe side lol

 

[Phil Stenning]

We are not the only trade in that situation, well i say trade, lets say profession, The IfL (institute for learning) is for college lecturers and teachers, membership is mandatory and they have just started charging its members, although this is being fought by the unions, Sadly paying to be registered to work on gas has become the norm now, i doubt it will ever change! Sadly I am member of both!

 

[tamz]

Allegedly it is a non profit organisation

 

[villa_tom]

Allegedly it is a non profit organisation

I think thats what custards think about plumbing and heating companies too

 

[Hybrid]

I think thats what custards think about plumbing and heating companies too

Touchy subject this evening lol

 

[tamz]

Touchy subject this evening lol

Ain't it just :lol:
I think he needs to take a chill pill.

 

[villa_tom]

Touchy subject this evening lol

Am I missing something?

 

[stevetheplumber]

personally ive never seen the need for gas safe or corgi as they are just another level of management for us to pay
why after taking acs do i need to register with another organisation to prove competentcy
were all answerable to the hse if something goes wrong ,an at present we are paying for gas safe to help them prosecute us if we mess up

 

[sheff paul]

personally ive never seen the need for gas safe or corgi as they are just another level of management for us to pay
why after taking acs do i need to register with another organisation to prove competentcy
were all answerable to the hse if something goes wrong ,and at present we are paying for gas safe to help them prosecute us if we feck up

Got to say i am in agreement first got corgi reg 20 years ago meant nothing then because every plumber did gas jobs anyway,had to shell out over 400 quid to join Gasafe as being out of uk for a spell .Find out now every man and his dog got free ACS through the job centre so personally i see a hundreds of new fitters,so the prices go down and the quality of work is down as well.I thought it was all about raising quality of work.Everyone fits combis ,a lot dont want unvented as they cannot do a s plan how can these get through ACS and havent got a clue about heatings.... Looks like Gasafe wants as many paying as they can... to make money

 

[fuzzy]

i dont think its good for an individual per say but is something thats needed overall, what are the alternatives

 

[< 0.004 = :-)]

there was a docu on Ch4 a while ago about CAPITA and other PLCs who the govt uses for outsourcing . after the election these PLCs were asked to reduce their margins to help the coalition with their deficit reduction "plans". CAPITA , as ever trying to protect their own margins, then sent out a memo to their own suppliers asking for a higher rebate than the Govt was looking for. this memo got back to the Govt ministers and CAPITA directors were warned this would affect there chances off winning future contracts.
there was footage of the chairman, on £10m+ inc bonuses, trying to justify his salary and talk his frontline staff off the picket line striking for better wages. he claimed the business could not afford to pay these staff above the minimum wage.
when you call GSR , chances are the call centre worker your talking to is on minumum wage. no wonder the tech advice is so bad.

Why don t we see TV and newspaper ads with the pictures we see on here and in the GSR and Corgi mags showing the public the dangerous installs and situations left by DIYers and untrained installers ?
Why don t you ever see a Gas Inspector on a Building Site ? (over run with eastern europeans , installing flues graded the long way, cut square when the flue duct needs to be 20mm longer than the air intake, 10m-15m over the MI max flue lengths and totally concealed in ceiling voids, hep fittings on gas , etc . all things i v seen on sites). i m there to do my job safely, never have and never will grass someone up, and don t see it as my job to catch these people, thats supposed to the GSRs remit.
why are we seeing so many posts on here from career changers, who see our trade as an easy option but who ve never held a pair of footies in their life .

bottom line, its down to money. If we had a decent register/council, looking out for proper time served engineers like every other profession , half these newly qualified engineers would not get past the vetting stage, rather than the inspectors being on a bonus to approve new applicants

an alternative would be an open and transparent Gas Engineers Register , with charity status ie profits going to good causes inc raising gas safety awareness , set amount of free CO alarms to elderly etc

our economy is the way it is because we are a banana republic, swamped by regulations , and red tape.
service industries employing non producers and paper shufflers, GSR for example.

we have to re-sit every 5 years and pay annual subs . why the need to resit every 5 years and pay annual subs ? whats the benefit ? after the docu , my old man , whos got +50years in the game, refused to resit so is now classed as illegal , yet some clown who doesn t know his back side from his elbow can do a 12 wk nvq, his acs and be welcomed, along with his £438 joining fee with open arms by GSR .
this is the opposite of the reason Corgi was formed in the first place , when joining was voluntary.

 

[Barry98]

HEP FITTINGS ON GAS ? serious ? or just getting to the point

i assume you like most are against those who go out and build a portfolio then sit there exams ? and therefore tie them all in with the same brush

 

[< 0.004 = :-)]

you wouldn t believe some off the stuff you see on a site when you have polish butchers and miners claiming to be injineer.
aint against anybody who wants to do a decent, honest days graft for a decent days pay. these fat cats on £m's a year for doing nowt really , anybody can look at a balance sheet and say we need to save X here , y there, bung my old school tie friend to win a contract , when their staff are toiling on the breadline is what i don t like.

our annual subs to GSR helping support these fat cats doesn t make me feel too clever .
if you ve sat your acs and are confident enough to call yourself a gas engineer, congratulations. as long as your honest and not out to shaft anyone, you ll get all the help you need from like minded experienced engineers.
i take my hat off to you , at least you ve got a bit get up and go and not one off the millions happy to sit on your backside and milk the system for hand outs and benefits.

in allowing fast trackers to register , i do think its become too easy to call yourself a qualified gas engineer though and the trade has been devalued . but there are crap , lazy engineers who ve served their time doing an apprentiship , and good lively engineers who ve changed careers, mostly it comes down to wether you take some pride in what you do or not that make the difference.

 

[Barry98]

pride and a consience sign of any good work person in any trade

 

[dontknowitall]

< 0.004 =

Great posts and I agree with your sentiments. Same applies to OFTEC too.

I'm new to the industry after a fast track course and lucky to have got off the ground and luckier to have found a more experienced plumber to work with from time to time. I'm not one of those to sit on my backside waiting for the next benefits payment to come in but equally I'm not a life trained plumber.

I do wish I knew more - I don't do gas but still feel that dread when going to a broken down boiler. Done a few installations (with this other plumber) and he tells me I know more than enough to do one on my own but I'm still not 100% convinced.

If I had my say with this I have much tougher exams - no open books and no exam taken within 2 weeks of the last training session. There would be two grades of membership:

1) Those newer qualifications (up to 5 years experience) who had to renew after another set of exams 5 years after their first (Associate Members). These people would have to be inspected twice in the first 6 months, once in the next 6 then once per year afterwards. The inspection wouldn't be pass or fail but more of on-site lessons as well as ensuring the important regulations were being adhered to.
2) Those who've proved 5 years of experience (Member) and would have occasional drop in inspections (one every 2 years?)

When you compare someone like me to someone like Tamz or GasMan there's no contest on knowledge of plumbing, diagnosis, knowledge of regulations, etc.

GasSafe (like OFTEC, REAL, ELECSA, etc) are just money making opportunities for those who happen to have been in the right place at the right time, in my opinion. They're clever people who know how to communicate with the Departments of State, Ministers, etc and it wouldn't surprise me if there's a fair amount of back scratching going on that we have no idea about.

Must get off my soap box before the moderators get me for slander, libel, etc, etc
:bucktooth: