Freeze incoming main lead pipe (irregular shape)

[NJD1977]

Hi

I have a problem with an internal stop-tap which has seized open (tried penetrating oil / spanner etc - the spindle will move but only a little bit back and forth). There is no evidence of an external stop tap in the pavement although I have called United Utilities to do a trace and locate in the next few days, but they have said even if they locate where it might be, it is highly unlikely they will excavate and expose as they no longer deem it a requirement / obligation for them to have external stop taps.

The internal stop tap has 15mm copper wiped into the existing lead pipe. Where the wipes are the lead pipe is irregular in diameter ranging from 22mm to ~30mm. If I use a 28mm freeze kit on this and straddle over the lead wipes (from 22mm below the wipe to 15mm copper above the wrap) is this likely to be successful? Also is there any problems in principle with freezing so close to the elbow. I have attached a photo which speaks a thousand words.

Also - I presume electric hired freeze machines are not suitable for lead? They all just refer to copper/steel.

Many thanks for any views / help.

 

[NJD1977]

UU have just sent a very helpful lady out. She put a Genny on the internal rising main and traced the exact line out to the pavement. Marked it up and raised a job order for Amey to come out and expose the stopcock and bring it back into usable condition. When I said that the person on the phone had advised this wouldn't happen she told me they have a mandate to do try to do everything they can to avoid costs and work but in this instance she agreed its risky to mess with the internal main with no way of shutting off at the pavement. It could take up to 2 weeks for them to do it but at least then its done. Feel a lot happier now and will just wait until the externals ate done before touching the internals. Thanks all for the advice.

 

[T & H Plumbing]

If United utilities don't come out and locate the stop tap call them and tell them that you have a leak and need to shut the water off but your internal stop tap has failed. They have a duty of care to prevent wastage of water.

They would if its on the outside boundry of the property, if its inside wont they tell him to contact a plumber?

 

[PhoenixServices]

They would if its on the outside boundry of the property, if its inside wont they tell him to contact a plumber?

I don't know about united utilities but Thames water come out all the time to stuff like this to help locate stop taps or put a new one in. United utilities should have a plan of where your outside stoptap should be.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

i had one once where the inside stopcock was stuffed and i couldn't turn off the outside one because it was at an angle so couldn't get my key on it. the cust phoned southern water and it was sorted inside two hours with a brand new outside stopcock, i could then change the inside one.

 

[brum]

Hi this is my third post on this subject I done agency work back in 98 fitting water meters for severn trent they would rather you froze a pipe than done a trace maybe things have changed now ?This is how I have no probs freezing lead .

 

[Killy Bing]

While you're at it i would cut the old stopcock and connect below!

 

[NJD1977]

Back to square one I think. UU put a CAT and Genny on the lead and got a very strong trace down the driveway to the pavement, marked it up and got their contractor out to fit a stop tap, but when they dug down in this location they couldn't find any trace of the water main so have backfilled and made good. I have requested a revisit by the inspector but I doubt this will change anything and I reckon they may refuse to reattempt.

I'm back to considering a live swap of the guts of the stopcock only. Bought an almost identical stop tap and all dimensions seem to be correct to swap the guts only. I would turn on all upstream taps to relieve pressure before unscrewing the old one and screwing in the new.

What do you reckon? Go for it?

 

[Ermintrude]

Hell yeh !

 

[R.Oak]

Looks like a job for the apprentice to me.

 

[newcastle phill]

You seem mentally ready for this challenge.