Didnt like having to AR warm air unit!

[Knappers]

Had to switch off an old fellas heating today as he had no fixed ventilation for warm air unit, tried to argue the benefits of letting him use it but was bashed with the letter of the 'law' by gassafe advisor.
I totally get the point but when does it become ok (no a requirement) to leave an 80+ dementia patient without heating because of a fault with the boiler that I can prove isn't an issue?

The fella is going into a home and the new owners want a safety cert so he'll be gone in a few weeks.
Now these old warm air units take a bit of dodging to pass at the best of times, they all blow back a little on ignition and I was once laughed at by manufacturer for trying to analyse the POC.
This install in a leaky old house hasn't had purpose provided ventilation for probably over 40 years but under any circumstance I could create it draws like a champ, the heater exchanger is flawless and has no major flaws (for a warm air unit) I even tested ambient CO.

So if it hadn't been under the scrutiny of 5 separate parties I would have been inclined to complete a risk assessment and conclude that the health risks associated with shutting down appliance was was far greater than the risk of the house suddenly hermetically sealing itself and causing the boiler to become dangerous.

When did it become LAW for me to have to blindly follow a set of guidelines and not balance my knowledge of them, years of experience and on site findings?

Why can't I advise the clients, issue a warning notice, label and CO alarm accompanied by a risk assessment explaining why boiler has been left running.

I've just had a call from another engineer complaining because I didn't remove the fuse when I isolated the appliance (oops) and suggesting that because the guy has dementia I should have capped it off!?????

Is it me thats delusional? I'm trying to tow the line (that I broadly agree with btw) its just not sitting well with me!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Commercially we can leave things on with a risk assessment eg assisted living

it’s one of them

 

[Knappers]

No just domestic house.
I'm commercial engineer too but just do domestic now, think that's my problem.
I'm used to having to use my judgement.

 

[Knappers]

Gassafe tech basically jumped down my throat when I suggested a risk assessment.
His words were something allong the line of "what on earth do you think gives you the right to ignore the law!"
The "me" response didn't go down well.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

A bit too high and mighty I think unfortunately they can be condescending some times

 

[Knappers]

I'm still concerned about the old boy and think in the circumstances there should have been another option available.
Is the risk assessment for care homes etc covered under H&S legislation and duty of care do you know?
Would the carehome take responsibility?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yep or vulnerable housing normally have to keep them on at all costs same with hospitals

 

[Knappers]

Its difficult as obviously they have supervision and a legal obligation to rectify ASAP
Where as my guy needs motivation to get it sorted, which seems to be suffering through the cold in the middle of winter?

 

[Knappers]

Seems as a domestic engineer I have no duty of care as a gas engineer and my personal sense of duty has no basis in law...

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yep sounds like all you can do is book 3-4 elec heaters down to the job least you’ve done your best

 

[Ric2013]

Is it me thats delusional? I'm trying to tow the line (that I broadly agree with btw) its just not sitting well with me!

Not delusional, but sounds like you are used to using your brain. Which isn't all that common a trait.

I had a sparkie insist on strongly recommending an 'improvement' on a house I used to rent out. Didn't like the clearly labelled fridge/freezer ONLY socket which had no RCD (despite the then electrical regs having a clear stated reference to this being okay). People don't like seeing anything that is unusual. My thought was that it was for a specific purpose, the tenants understood the purpose, there were so many other available kitchen sockets that there was no reason to think the tenants would feel the need to use it for anything else, and the risk of power failure and food poisoning exceeded the risk of shock from a fridge which was hard to PAT test because pretty much everything was painted or plastic so it was a struggle to find any way of testing the earth connection. No exposed metal: no shock possible!

After a argument by email, we compromised on a weak recommendation for 'improvement' which I then ignored.

 

[Knappers]

Thanks Ric2013. Its not easy with all the regs, then we've got paraphrased and abridged versions in the form of Guides.
Same as with sparks, were expected to be an authority and confident with the 'rules' but there's so many grey areas and contradictions written into them - its silly, the reason none of them are actually law and rather just supported by law is they would never stand up on their own.
Gas regs especially are a bit of a joke, spread across probably 50+ documents all overlapping, published by different bodies and largely inaccessible. Anyone who claims to have a comprehensive understanding must be a Savant and would likely be incapable of using basic tools.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

And most coming down to engineers judgment

 

[Knappers]

Granted having domestic, commercial, LPG (inc boats, caravans, LAV etc), testing and purging and full scope Part P tickets etc..etc.. doesn't help my clarity of thinking

 

[Ric2013]

Granted having domestic, commercial, LPG (inc boats, caravans, LAV etc), testing and purging and full scope Part P tickets etc..etc.. doesn't help my clarity of thinking

Well, I'd much prefer having someone of your ilk working in my house. Pity you're in Rugby.

You sound like the type who when asked, "Would you be able to run the pipe, flue, etc. this way (even if it costs more) rather than that way?" would at least be able to explain the technical reason rather than just say, "Oh no, that's not how it's usually done".

True story: a plumber friend of mine was working in an engineer's house and several tradesmen complained that he was questioning everything. My friend had no problem with him, however. Basically he just felt a need to understand the system that was being installed, and was interested. My friend answered his queries, he was happy, and then he started making her teas.

 

[Knappers]

Thanks Ric2014,
I'm a very average engineer.
I do like it when people show an interest tho

 

[Chuck]

True story: a plumber friend of mine was working in an engineer's house and several tradesmen complained that he was questioning everything. My friend had no problem with him, however.

IME, asking a tradesman why they recommend doing something in a particular manner is a fairly reliable way to whether they are good. If they are happy to answer and explain the pros and cons you've probably found a good 'un.