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Discuss Concerned whether KX(?) Solder ring fittings safe for drinking water? in the Fittings & Pipes area at UKPlumbersForums.co.uk.

  1. Bazza

    Bazza New Member

    Hi, first post :)
    Purchased a number of fittings today and long story short, after being referred to as Yorkshire fittings over the counter, I suspect this was a bit misleading?.

    How do I know if the solder ring fittings purchased are a) safe for drinking water (and b) presumably, if that means also WRAS approved).

    The fittings don't have the Yorkshire brand squiggle, only say:
    EN1254 [KX] LF 22.

    Did check online and seemed the EN wasn't enough to say, guessing KX is the brand but hard to diagnose online and may not be reassured by staff's say so in the shop now.

    Thanks,
    Barry
     
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  2. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    screwfix?

    and they will be fine tbh even the leaded solder versions would be fine (yes we all know were not allowed to use them but didnt do us any harm in the past )
     
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  3. Bazza

    Bazza New Member

    Local plumbing chain...
     
  4. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Your fine then
     
  5. Bazza

    Bazza New Member

    Rang them up "First time I've been asked that by anyone in 10 years. I don't actually know, it's the only (non end feed) we stock". Didn't know the brand either of what they buy in...

    As an engineer of another trade it's surprising that something so fundamental is not clearly denoted in the stamped standard.

    Did you recognise the brand from screwfix or was that a punt?
     
  6. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Screwfix have the same your fine either way just use them
     
  7. Bazza

    Bazza New Member

    Ta
     
  8. steadyon

    steadyon Active Member

    KX is, I think, a Chinese brand / company. EN 1254 is the appropriate British Standard for such fittings, and if a fitting meets these standards, then WRAS approves them, subject to various provisos.

    The market is full of fittings which may or may not meet the standards and may or may not be WRAS approved. If you want to be absolutely certain, buy known brand fittings such as Yorkshire Pegler or Conex. For most domestic applications the "unbranded" fittings are adequate. Whether you would have an argument with an insurance company if one failed and caused damage I don't know.
     
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  9. Bazza

    Bazza New Member

    Lovely. Had also seen KX was probably Chinese (not necessarily bad...), oddly their website didn't list solder ring fittings amongst the range but not to worry there. Did wonder if the LF was lead free but that'd be wishful thinking and didn't want to suggest upfront.
     
  10. Clanger

    Clanger Active Member

    Although I agree that risk of applying too much solder is reduced with solder ring compared to end-feed, we may not be as safe as we think. Scientists now argue strongly that there is no safe background level for lead in the environment and this means in pipes. This World Plumbing Council report (see page 33 onward) published this month, highlights the serious health risks associated with imperial copper systems in England (pre 1986) that have leaded solder joints http://worldplumbing.org/assets/upl...d-training-scholarship-report-Simon-Reddy.pdf
     
  11. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Yes I know Simon well

    Didn't do ours parents or grandparents any harm, and there's miles and miles of lead and leaded solder pipes around that arnt going to be changed any time soon

    If there was a problem don't you think the water board will have a mandatory change in place
     
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  12. Clanger

    Clanger Active Member

    Your comments are no different to others on this report and indeed, I think your reasoning is good - the water board should have spotted a risk, and should have acted - but the risk is on domestic side, so in some ways beyond their remit - at some point we got to remove all of these lead joints, so we should be working on measuring the risk and taking action to remove that risk to health - in Hong Kong people being arrested over this and the matter is still not resolved.
     
  13. Clanger

    Clanger Active Member

    Great first post Barry and I like your style in terms of being conscientious about public health - Top Professional!
     
  14. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    TBH I don't think they will do anything, I'm sure we're still going to see leaded jointsbfor at least 60 years
     
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  15. Ric2013

    Ric2013 Plumber Top Contributor!!

    With experience, it is possible to distinguish lead free solder from tin/lead solder with reasonable success. Obviously it is much easier to compare a roll of solder with another roll than the solder inside two fittings. Realistically, is it likely that a Yorkshire-style fitting of any style, especially if sold in a merchant's shop, will contain lead?
     
  16. Ric2013

    Ric2013 Plumber Top Contributor!!

    Clanger: thanks for that link. Interesting reading. Makes me wonder about my own house... having read this report, I'd be keen to have a water sample tested to see what is actually being dissolved, if anything.

    To the OP: I came into plumbing from an engineering background and I certainly share your frustration. There are lots of occasions when I find myself trying to size things accurately or design something unconventional, and then I discover I can only approximate because there is a lack of technical information available on products. Sadly we need good plumbing but the trade fails to get the respect it deserves.
     
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  17. Chuck

    Chuck Top Contributor!!

    Broadly speaking, if you are using an 'unconventional' design in a domestic plumbing sytem you are making a mistake and landing your client with future problems.

    If you buy no-name fittings from from a bargain basement supplier then you will indeed have difficulty getting technical information about them. If you buy branded products from an authorised stockist for a good manufacturer (I like Pegler Yorkshire) you will have no difficulty getting all the information your heart could desire.

    Take, for example a straight coupling. Look at YP's website for these:

    Pegler Yorkshire -

    And download the 'Worksheet'. It's not clear to me what else you would reasonably need to know but if you do they have a technical department for queries.
     
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  18. Ric2013

    Ric2013 Plumber Top Contributor!!

    Chuck: my unconventional design work is always in my own house, don't panic!

    The company I have had the greatest problems with was called Honeywell. As far as Pegler is concerned, while it is my preferred manufacturer, I can't say that has always been plain sailing either, sadly. Perhaps I'm unlucky?
     
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  19. Clanger

    Clanger Active Member

    The problems of lead in water supply in Hong Kong were not detected in the first round of government tests because no time limit is specified to run tap before taking test. Thus, if you run tap for twenty minutes you are hardly likely to find lead contamination but if you leave system over night and then draw straight from tap, it's more likely to show. Hence, in Hong Kong the issues are around this test timing.