(co) bigger killer now or 20 years ago

[Nostrum]

Happily fit gas fires into class 1 chimneys but precast or Pre fabricated chimneys are never as reliable and I am more uncomfortable with them.

 

[lame plumber]

problem with flueless gas fires is the idiot custards block the vent as soon as you leave!!

 

[Gasmancoops]

Big problem is new appliances are not safer than older appliances but people become complacent becasue they are 'modern'.

I investigated a non-fatal CO poisioning where a modern condensing boiler was producing in excess of 55,000ppm CO. Boiler had been maintained every year but the flue was installed too close to air vents. Everything was fine until a fault with the air/gas ratio valve, massive amounts of CO produced, products of combustion entered the property via the air vents and the whole family got hospitalised.

Also had a double fatality of a modern cooker producing in excess of 30,000ppm. This time it would appaer that the grill had been used with the door shut but we could never definitely prove it.

Doesnt matter if its the appliance, user error or just one of those things, CO incidents will unfortunately happen. The best we can do is be vigilant, try and keep things well maintained and push CO alarms (as smoke alarms do save lives and so shopuld CO alarms).

Just my opinion!

 

[Reg Man]

I did a fatal CO incident investigation where the CO arlarm was still in its box sitting on the arm of the sofa. So not alot of good unless you activate it and mount it in the proper location.

CO incidents will continue to happen where people do not get their appliances properly maintained. The other big issue is all of those long runs of concentric flues from permix boilers, when the flue has been incorrectly installed. Hence the requirement for inspection hatches, to be able to inspect ever joint.

 

[shaunsinky]

i got called to a house yesterday with the co alarm in the upstairs bedroom was going off, turns out the customer had turned the pan supports upside down after cleaning the cooker, then decided to make a pot of soup. she wondered why there was 'black stuff' up the side of her pan..... something so easily done could of been fatal for her

 

[nicro3]

As previously posted most co deaths are suicides.

 

[Reg Man]

As previously posted most co deaths are suicides.

Sorry, but general CO suicides, are not included in the Advantica stat's.

 

[Reg Man]

Advantica collect statisics on CO poisonings, related to piped gas incidents. This is collected from investigations of this type. The 20'ish deaths a year, are based on these records.

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

Gas fires with and without catalytic converters scare me and make me paranoid when installing to the point where i really dont want to.......am i alone or does anyone else share this view..........i know my installations are safe as i check and check again, but i still have that what if?......and so usually decline the invitation to install saying im too busy.

I am writing a book on gas fires. Research is all done & it is almost finished ... I would be happy to email you a draft when it is ready.
When you see all the research gathered together in one place I don't think you will ever fit a flueless fire again.
I think they are probably fine - so long as they are not turned on and definitely not used as a heat source!
My gsr business do not do fires so I would really like a few guys who do fit fires to read through...

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

CO accidental fatality figures are wonderfully low and fallen dramatically over past 15 years.<br>Perhaps due to better public education?<br><br>But they do not include injury / poison incidents which are high.<br>Dept of Health est 4,000 incidents of CO poisoning annually (based on A&amp;E attendance).<br>Problem of under estimating as it is rarely tested for (via blood test) it is diagnosed just based on the evidence, so CO has to be suspected.<br>Of course the symptoms could be mistaken for flue, stress, etc...<br><br>less than 10 years ago there was a study in south east england that found a quarter of gas fires were AR or ID - due to lack of maintenance.<br>CO is associated with cookers and often reaches high levels, but people don't know this and a good number will be using their gas cooker to provide heating.<br>And then there was just a recent study in to CO last year - showing high levels of CO in a number of homes, residents were not aware.<br>http://www.ljmu.ac.uk/NewsUpdate/index_123350.htm<br><br>Those levels are not going to kill but can cause long term, permanent health problems.<br><br>Some CO may be due to other fuels, lighting a BBQ in the kitchen of using a petrol generator in the home! <br>But something like 95% of homes in the UK have gas heating so really CO is still a big problem.<br>And the vast majority of these poisonings would not happen is people had gas appliances installed and regularly serviced/checked by gsr engineer.<br><br>Rant over.<br>PS. I 've got no idea what the OP was about! <br><br><br>

 

[Reg Man]

Tip of the ice berg. I suspect there is so much under reporting of RIDDOR through CO relayed issues, that the stat's do not reflect the true picture.

 

[lame plumber]

if the gov researched and provided proper stats they would have to do something ie ban sale of gas products to diy and that isnt happening anytime soon

 

[Reg Man]

if the gov researched and provided proper stats they would have to do something ie ban sale of gas products to diy and that isnt happening anytime soon

It will never happen, freedom of trade and all that.

Just because a person buys a gas appliance it does not mean they will install it. Where do you draw the line. Gas Barbeques? Portable gas heaters? freestanding Cookers?

Unfortunately there are those out there that think they can do what ever they want, with no regard for legislation. Competents! Reg 3 GSIUR

 

[Gary71]

I think we've taken a step back with gas safety due to the lack of air pressure switches on gas boilers, APS were always handy for identifying flue faults as well as a flame picture.

A unconverted Vitodens with a working pressure of 70 mbar was very nearly the end of me last year, I'd advise any gas fitter to get a personal carbon monoxide alarm as mine saved me that day.

 

[Toxic Ted]

Im reading too many reports of gsr fitter being saved by personal CO alarms so it seems i had better get one sharpish......wonder if ray will do an offer for forum members?