Carbon monoxide alarms rented houses

[Matt0029]

England is joining Scotland and requiring carbon monoxide alarms installed in rented properties from the 1st of October. How would you categoryies one not being there on a CP12. At risk?

 

[Deleted member 120897]

I probably wouldn’t class it as anything unless Gas safe release a technical bulletin or there’s another usp from igem.

 

[Matt0029]

I probably wouldn’t class it as anything unless Gas safe release a technical bulletin or there’s another usp from igem.

Thanka but it is supposedly law after October 1st 2022 to have them fitted in rental properties with gas burning appliances expect cookers

 

[Deleted member 120897]

Thanka but it is supposedly law after October 1st 2022 to have them fitted in rental properties with gas burning appliances expect cookers

Yes ok I get that, but where’s the risk? Risk of CO from a dodgy appliance that should be maintained. Ncs imo would apply here and note down. Again unless anything changes by the governing bodies.

 

[PETE 123]

Maybe its up to landlord to fit or get installer at time of visit to fit.

 

[Deleted member 120897]

Maybe its up to landlord to fit or get installer at time of visit to fit.

It‘s going to be law in rentals, so will be down to landlord to sort, not the engineer unless they’re asked to.

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Think it's CO alarms for new boilers/appliances fitted too regardless of whether it's rented or not.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yep all appliances including cookers I’ve read

 

[snowhead]

Think it's CO alarms for new boilers/appliances fitted too regardless of whether it's rented or not.

No, Tenanted only with some properties excluded.

Nowhere does it state checks to be included in CP.12.

Excludes rooms with only a cooker in.

Smoke and Carbon Monoxide Alarm (Amendment) Regulations 2022: guidance for landlords and tenants

www.gov.uk

 

[Deleted member 120897]

Nowhere does it state checks to be included in CP.12.

No it doesn’t, but on some forms, eg the Regin ones, it asked about whether audible CO alarms are fitted, in date and tested.

 

[Matt0029]

No, Tenanted only with some properties excluded.

Nowhere does it state checks to be included in CP.12.

Excludes rooms with only a cooker in.

Smoke and Carbon Monoxide Alarm (Amendment) Regulations 2022: guidance for landlords and tenants

www.gov.uk

But if you had a boiler and a hob in a kitchen you would need one?

 

[Deleted member 120897]

But if you had a boiler and a hob in a kitchen you would need one?

Depending how big the kitchen is, you may need 2. Aico ones (we fit these) have a minimum of 1m away from appliance and a maximum of 3m. There’s some of our properties that need 2.

 

[richard978]

Maybe its up to landlord to fit or get installer at time of visit to fit.

It's classed as non compliant which is the same as not to current standards. However, failure to fit a required safety feature like smoke or co alarms could make the landlord or gas safe engineer liable for any damages. So like always document everything you see and do because it could prove very costly if you don't.

The problem is as always it's the bad landlords that do everything wrong and it's the good ones who pay the price. No matter what regulations they bring in the same people are fitting illegal gas appliances, putting people at risk and charging very vulnerable people rent....it makes me sick. I visit these places and I'll cap them off and a week later that disc is removed and nothing has been done.

RIDDORs only hurt legitimate gas engineers and the illegal ones carry on regardless.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Smoke and Carbon Monoxide Alarm (Amendment) Regulations 2022: guidance for landlords and tenants

www.gov.uk

This link if it works. Says that CO alarms must be fitted, and not, should be fitted. Which in my eyes means you cannot fill out the cp12 as a pass. I carry both on the van and got on site. (With permission of course).

 

[Harvest Fields]

No, Tenanted only with some properties excluded.

Nowhere does it state checks to be included in CP.12.

Excludes rooms with only a cooker in.

Smoke and Carbon Monoxide Alarm (Amendment) Regulations 2022: guidance for landlords and tenants

www.gov.uk

But as a trained gas engineer you know that it is now law.

 

[richard978]

Smoke and Carbon Monoxide Alarm (Amendment) Regulations 2022: guidance for landlords and tenants

www.gov.uk

This link if it works. Says that CO alarms must be fitted, and not, should be fitted. Which in my eyes means you cannot fill out the cp12 as a pass. I carry both on the van and got on site. (With permission of course).

It can't be at risk and it can't be I.D and the only other thing we can do is say it's non compliant and the landlord has a legal duty to comply with that. Obviously the landlord can pay you to fit them but an awful lot won't pay the 70 pounds I charge to fit them.

It would be interesting to see what gas safe had to say but I think it will non compliant and as long as you state that you've done your job.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

It’s down to the landlord now you can sell them this service but it’s down to them to make sure they have one

 

[snowhead]

But as a trained gas engineer you know that it is now law.

I know that travelling at over 70mph is illegal, but I don't sit at the side of the road writing down numbers and reporting the drivers.

If checking the CO detector was within the scope of a CP12 it would be stated in the legislation.

The link I posted says guidance for Landlords and Tenants, it's doesn't say guidance for Gas engineers.

There's nothing to stop anyone noting it on the CP12 and the same if you noticed the smoke alarms were out of date.

 

[Murdoch]

This is just like the electrical EICR, badly thought out and open to interpretation.

Ive seen reports giving unsatisfactory because of the lack of alarms - but they are not in BS 7671

if they are fitted and out of date I do report a C2 , but if they aren’t fitted then it’s a comment for the landlord to act on