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Discuss Boiler lockout in the Central Heating Forum area at UKPlumbersForums.co.uk.

  1. fabien

    fabien Guest

    Hi

    Could I have your thoughts and maybe advice on this:

    For the last 2 weeks I couldn't get any hot water from the kitchen tap. The electronic panel was showing an error message which according to manual is ‘safety thermostat intervention lockout’, manual says that the boiler can be directly reactivated by the user by pressing the reset button, which I have been doing and it has been working fine. I had to do that once almost every day.
    Last Tuesday night I looked by chance the pressure gauge which is under the boiler and I noticed that the boiler pressure was at 3 bars. I know it shouldn't be that high (I don't know how long it has been like that) and maybe I should have looked at it more seriously but I didn't think much of it at the time as it seemed to work without problem, apart of the daily reset.

    On Friday I did try to call our local engineer if he was available after Christmas to have a look at boiler but I had no answer or reply so left it.

    On Saturday, we have been out all day and when I came home the house was freezing. I checked the pressure gauge and no pressure at all! I refilled the boiler to 1.5 bars but after an hour all pressure was gone again. So I did the process again, I left it overnight.

    On Sunday (yesterday), I was out all day. I refilled the boiler to have a bit of heat for a couple of hours.
    Just before going to bed, my girlfriend went to the downstairs toilet and noticed there was a small puddle of water on the floor; water was dripping down through light bulb. Fortunately, she didn't switch on the light.
    The leak was coming from the boiler cupboard which is above.
    For your information, we have a second toilet which is next to the boiler cupboard. The toilet flushing system is behind the toilet wall, inside the boiler cupboard and is connected to the boiler. Worm Water was dripping out the toilet system down through the cupboard wooden floor.
    Is it common (or legal) to have that type of system? It's not the first time we notice that the toilet is flushed with warm water. “I am fortunate enough to have warm water to flush my toilet” ;).

    Anyway, I immediately switched off the boiler, flushed the upstairs toilet, put bucket and towel to soak up.
    This morning I tried to switch on boiler but it would not ignite.

    I spoke to my landlady this morning, she said she wouldn’t be able to get someone out today (what she means is she is not going to pay to get someone out on Boxing Day) and she will call engineer tomorrow.

    I know that some people are not working tomorrow in lieu of Christmas (like me) so there is no guarantee she will get someone in.

    What do you think is going? Is there anything I can do?
    Sorry I am total novice in terms of boiler
     
  2. SimonJohns

    SimonJohns Trusted GSR

    What boiler do you have
     
  3. warrington

    warrington Plumber GSR

    The problems you explained here indicates many problems, thermistor, overheat thermostat, expansion vessel some of these problems. About having a warm flush from toilet worries me , i can't tell without seeing but sounds like your prv discharge connected to your cistern, ( hope not ). I just wrote shortly because there is nothing you can do really. You need GSR engineer.
     
  4. fabien

    fabien Guest

    It's a Biasi Activ A 25c. She said it was quite expensive but to me it's very basic. I don't know how it compares to over boilers.

    It was installed last summer so almost brand new. I would think being that new that there is a warranty on it. My landlady is a scrooge as anything and will not spend if she does not have to; She even said she will get the engineer to call me and see if it could be sorted over the phone because there is a charge every time he calls in.
     
  5. fabien

    fabien Guest

    When you say hope not, what would happen if it is?
    Hopefully, an engineer will come tomorrow and I will let him know about the warm flush. But it would be the same guy who installed and connected boiler so he would know about what he has done.
     
  6. warrington

    warrington Plumber GSR

    He shouldn't connect prv discharge pipe into the cistern, against regulations. your expansion vessel doesn't accommodate the expansion, prv release will the water in cistern and it will cause the cistern over flood . I am not saying he did connect but the way you explained the problem sounds like it. I would like to know what he says tomorrow.
     
  7. fabien

    fabien Guest

    If i send you photos do you think you could figure out if it is connected?
     
  8. warrington

    warrington Plumber GSR

    you said cistern is connected to boiler in your first post. If you take the photo of that connection,possibly i can tell you.
     
  9. fabien

    fabien Guest

  10. fabien

    fabien Guest

    Does that help?
     
  11. warrington

    warrington Plumber GSR

    Your condensate pipe is connected to the cistern which shouldn't, and too close the water, and causing condensate getting trapped. If you check your manual, you will see requirements about it.And that causing lock out problems.
     
  12. Gray0689

    Gray0689 Trusted Plumber GSR

    Lol that's some plumber you got to do that lol
    Sorry it's very bad the condensate is backing up as the cistern fills with water from it very bad job
     
  13. stevetheplumber

    stevetheplumber Plumber GSR

    cant see if the original over flow still runs out and he has teed in to it
     
  14. Rickster123

    Rickster123 Guest

    That's a terrible job. Needs the installer back to put that shambles right.
     
  15. fabien

    fabien Guest

    thanks all for your comments.
    Does that type of work needs to be reported?
     
  16. GrahamM

    GrahamM Plumber GSR

    The boiler requires the attention of a Qualified Engineer to bring the installation up to a decent standard, before any fault issues can be attended to.
    As far as reporting goes, it's more of a shoddy rather than dangerous job by looks of it. Only a decent Engineer can determine this for sure.
     
  17. fabien

    fabien Guest

    the guy who installed the boiler is coming later this morning so heating should be back on today.
     
  18. fabien

    fabien Guest

    Engineer came. He is not too sure where the problem comes from, he thinks it's the .. (I can't remember the name of the part), he doesn't want to mess with it and that the manufacturer needs to come out because boiler is less than 6 months old.
    He called Biasi who are going to organise one of their local engineer to come in. They are supposed to call me to arrange a visit but I called them first because I want that sorted today. They said they have only been back to work today and today only making calls to arrange appointment for tomorrow following the request they have received by email over the weekend.

    There is nothing else for me to do than waiting for their call. To be honest I am completely fed up!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2011
  19. fabien

    fabien Guest

    By the way, he said the toilet overflow was a coincidence and that it wasn't related to the boiler breakdown.
    I find that very difficult to believe. Last night I tried to switch on the boiler and the ignition seemed to work. I filled up the boiler and temperature was rising until boiler lockout but at that point there was a small flow of water coming out of that pipe to the toilet and I am sure that is what happened the over night when it overflowed.
    At least an other engineer will come in and will tell me what is really going on.
     
  20. warrington

    warrington Plumber GSR

    When the engineer comes he will see the state of condensing pipe and will tell you that it is not ok! But in the first post i try to explain, it is not the only problem you have, you need your expansion vesssel, thermistor,over heat thermostat,condensate trap...checked. shortly you need a good service on that boiler. And your over flow happened because of that condensate pipe, as from the photo i can't see your cistern overflow pipe.But what i am guessing you haven't got one, because if you had overflow from toilet, installer could take the condensate from same route. That condensate pipe in that cistern cause lock out as well. And it can also back siphon to boiler aswell, which could make more damage.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2011
  21. fabien

    fabien Guest

    Can that type of repair be done on the day or does engineer need to order part?
     
  22. GrahamM

    GrahamM Plumber GSR

    As warrington and I stated previously. This install needs to be brought upto scratch. The condensate needs to terminate into a proper waste system or drain as per the Manufactures Instructions. This can be done in-day dependent on availability of a recognised termination point and what materials engineer has to hand to carry out work.
     
  23. jtsplumbing

    jtsplumbing Plumber GSR

    If i may add my thoughts on this problem, 1st its a biasi boiler cheep B&Q rubbish , fault sound`s like you may have a faulty heat exchanger ! leaking inside then running out of condense pipe into cistern (warm water) Depending how the boiler engineer feels about the installation (the one from Biasi) he may refuse to do any repair as the boiler is not fitted as per Manufactures Instructions , This is another case of a landlord wanting a cheep job done ! and the installer cutting corner`s to get the work. You can allways call Gas Safe and check out the installer just for your own piece of mind !!
    :sick:
     
  24. fabien

    fabien Guest

    I will have to wait and see what he says.
    It really annoys me that you trust someone to install a boiler and in fact he has been doing a bad job without me knowing.

    I did call them, he is registered.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2011
  25. Gray0689

    Gray0689 Trusted Plumber GSR

    Fabian don't take this the wrong way but you got an installer to fit a cheap rubbish boiler I don't know if you arranged for this boiler to be fitted but most times you pay peanuts you will get a monkey
     
  26. fabien

    fabien Guest

    I know what you mean Gray but it wasn't my choice. When I moved into that house last June (and that will teach me a lesson) I didn't have any hot water.
    I only needed it for a bit of washing up every day, I have an electric shower. I had more major problems to deal with at the time and I only informed the landlady after 2 weeks. Engineer came and said that boiler needed to be changed. I agree that landlady took the cheapest option because she has been asking for several quotes which took some times and at the end the Biasi was installed.
    When I recently told her I had problems with boiler she almost didn't believe me it was serious because it was almost brand new and according to her wasn't cheap.
     
  27. bustermaw

    bustermaw Guest

    Just a thought,but,did you check the engineers Gas Safe card,I find it hard to believe that a kosher engineer would do that sort of work.I have come across cowboys using other peoples registration numbers.
    Check with Gas Safe that the boiler has been registered,also they are always interested in dodgy installations,which,this clearly is.
     
  28. fabien

    fabien Guest

    No I didn't. I trusted him because it's the engineer my landlady uses.


    He is registered. At first I couldn't find him on Gas Safe website database but I called them and they found him.
     
  29. bustermaw

    bustermaw Guest

    It's just that there is nowhere for the condensate from the boiler to go to,except to leak out of the toilet cistern onto the floor.
    Also, in my experience,Landlords always use the cheapest quote available.There is nothing wrong with Biasi boilers,I have been fitting them for more than ten years for people who find it hard to stump up the £900 quid + for Vaillants etc;I can barely remember the last time that I had a call out to repair one.Problems are nearly always caused by shoddy installation,as yours clearly was.
    I can't imagine any boiler manufacturer agreeing to repair a boiler that has not been installed properly.Did you say that they ( Biasi ) had been to look at it yet ?
    Buster
     
  30. fabien

    fabien Guest

    I had a call from engineer, he is on his way.
     
  31. Gray0689

    Gray0689 Trusted Plumber GSR

    Let us know outcome please
     
  32. fabien

    fabien Guest

    I am furious!!!!
    The guy said the main boiler exchanger needs to be changed and it won't be done before Tuesday onwards.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2011
  33. bustermaw

    bustermaw Guest

    Good luck,then.
     
  34. fabien

    fabien Guest

    Also the Biasi engineer didn't look shocked by the installation.

    When I told him there was hot water going into the flushing system he looked puzzled and just said it shouldn't be happening.
     
  35. bustermaw

    bustermaw Guest

    I'm afraid that doesn't say much for the engineer.Be very afraid !
     
  36. sparkygas

    sparkygas Guest

    First he puts the condense on the cistern, a cistern without an over flow at that, then he wants to call out biasi to sort out his dodgy install. And its a landlord job? Whats the odds this job isnt registered and the installers not gas safe? Sorry for your troubles fabien. Get a full report from the biasi engineer and use it to get your land lord to get a decent gas safe installr to sort it out.
     
  37. jtsplumbing

    jtsplumbing Plumber GSR

    Hi fabien, I see it was the heat exchanger that was at fault, bad luck about not getting it fix`d untill next week ! What is going to happen about the condense pipe ?? Did you know that this water is slightly acidic ? and when your boiler is working can discharge 1/2 Ltr of water each time !!
     
  38. fabien

    fabien Guest

    If i had not been on that forum i would never have known what is going on with the boiler so thanks again everyone.
    Because installation is not illegal i don't think landlady is going to do anything. And i can't afford to get someone in to sort out this mess. There is not much i can do.
     
  39. bustermaw

    bustermaw Guest

    Fabien,I repeat,talk to Gas Safe.The installation is not to regulations,that is,not to the manufacturers specification.They will make the installer rectify the problem,or,remove him from the register.
    Also, I suggest that you tell your landlady that,unless she wants continual bills to repair the water leaks through the ceiling,she ought to do something.
    Buster
     
  40. brightcrow

    brightcrow Guest

    The condense seems to be attached to cistern overflow. Definately not correct but should not account for system failure. Can you trace the copper pipe, furthest right and see where it goes to?, This is discharge pipe and if there are signs of water at end, it may account for why system losing pressure. if it is that then the engineer will need to replace the pressure relief valve. if not that then there is probably a leak on system somewhere, probably under cupboard floor if recent posts anything to go by.<br><br>Worth pointing out to land lady that boiler not installed correctly though.
     
  41. fabien

    fabien Guest

    If i had not been on that forum i would never have known what is going on with the boiler so thanks again everyone.
    Because installation is not illegal i don't think landlady is going to do anything. And i can't afford to get someone in to sort out this mess. There is not much i can do.
     
  42. Gray0689

    Gray0689 Trusted Plumber GSR

    Best of luck mate hope you get it sorted soon as said tell landlady it will make more damage and more calls from you unless its fixed properly
     
  43. dancinplumba

    dancinplumba Trusted Plumber GSR

    have you got room stat ? non-compliance with build regs, boilers can produce 8ltrs/hr of condensate, could tap into toilet waste pipe
     
  44. jtsplumbing

    jtsplumbing Plumber GSR

    What size boiler is produceing 8 Ltrs per Hr ?
     
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