Air seperatrs- Who uses them on Domestic?

[999]

Who fits air seperators on sealed systems for domestic?
Is their any real benifit long term or would the tramped air released from a rad 1 week later surfice ?
Interested to know what peeps thoughts are and why

 

[Welder]

Complicated subject. There are many posts about the pros and cons and whys and wherefores.

In summary,

• deaeration on a brand new copper only system will give best life and performance.
• on open vented or systems with plastic pipework you are wasting your time with deaeration as air is being introduced continually

 

[ShaunCorbs]

No need another thing to go wrong, just make sure the system is correctly installed and air tight

 

[king of pipes]

Atag recommend fitting one ? but as Shaun said if the system is fitted correctly and sound with no leaks it should vent through the rads the boiler and any manual vents fitted not a big fan of aav where they can't be seen. Kop

 

[Gasmk1]

Vailant have their kit now a separator and filter and say no inhibitor

 

[999]

Vailant have their kit now a separator and filter and say no inhibitor

Heard this "no inhibitor" a few times now from a few engineers.
Odd as its recommended by radiator manufacturers but certain boiler manufacturers say No

 

[Gasmk1]

if you go on the course vaillant say the air seperator romoves all the micro bubbles and the magnet catches any debris they also want a ph level low

 

[ShaunCorbs]

if you go on the course vaillant say the air seperator romoves all the micro bubbles and the magnet catches any debris they also want a ph level low

What happens when the customer tops the system up that's what I want to know it's going to send the ph out of wack

 

[Gasmk1]

What happens when the customer tops the system up that's what I want to know it's going to send the ph out of wack

supposedly if you have flushed the system correctly you get the correct Ph level the air searator will take any air put back in with top up out of the system so theretically shouldnt affect the PH level, but i suppopse you need to check every service interval. dont shoot me i am only the messenger lol

 

[Ric2013]

I know a guy in Kent who fits one on every new boiler install (Veissmann).

 

[Ric2013]

• on open vented or systems with plastic pipework you are wasting your time with deaeration as air is being introduced continually

Surely all the more reason to fit one. Then the air would also be being removed continually?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I know a guy in Kent who fits one on every new boiler install (Veissmann).

you got his name? first will be ok

 

[Jim Goodenough]

you got his name? first will be ok

Aaron...

 

[Welder]

No need another thing to go wrong, just make sure the system is correctly installed and air tight

Interesting Shaun. So what happens to the free oxygen created by heating the water, by cavitation of not perfect fittings etc?

 

[Welder]

Surely all the more reason to fit one. Then the air would also be being removed continually?

It is and it isn't! Removing it means pressure loss which means introducing more aerated water. My understanding is that generally, leaving it alone, venting occasionally the rad that it collect in, then topping up really slowly, is the way to have least problems. I have 'one of those' and this way of managing it works. I had a deaerator and ended up isolating it as we were topping up too often.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Interesting Shaun. So what happens to the free oxygen created by heating the water, by cavitation of not perfect fittings etc?

Heating of water is minimal as for cavitation the rv2 wouldn't pick this up either as it would be trapped in the rads / cylinder air tube

 

[Ric2013]

It is and it isn't! Removing it means pressure loss which means introducing more aerated water.

If your experience is that you end up topping up more, then that is interesting and useful to know. But I can't see that it should theoretically result in more topping up. If all you are removing is air, then you'd only need to top up to replace any actual water lost, which would hardly be as a result of the deaerator (unless, I suppose the air contained a heck of a lot of water vapour?)

We are talking about these, right?
Spirotech | Products to improve the output of installations and processes

 

[Jay Kay]

I know this Thread is a couple of months old. But I was just wondering if anyone could help me, with the following question, please:
How much would a deaerator adversely affect the Water Flow to the Taps/Shower. (Spirotech RV2)
We’re having a new Combi (ATAG IC Economiser @ 34kw) fitted Monday and I forgot to ask my installer..
I’m due to have one fitted and was wondering if it makes a dent in the Water Flow/Pressure, specifically to the Shower?
Thanks in advance for any insights..

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Nope nothing at all

 

[Harvest Fields]

As above. But he hasn’t started work yet. Why don’t you give him a call mate and ask him?

 

[Jay Kay]

As above. But he hasn’t started work yet. Why don’t you give him a call mate and ask him?

..He’s rather difficult to get hold of on the phone. Very busy and I don’t like calling him in the evening. I’ll ask him on the day he comes to install the boiler.. Thanks for the replies though, much appreciated. Sounds like the effect is minimal on Flow and Pressure.

 

[townfanjon]

Its common practice on the viessmann site that a load , fit seperators and MB3’s .

Personally I just fit filters

 

[Scott_D]

Will be a bit late if you ask for it on the day and he hasn’t got one

 

[Jay Kay]

Will be a bit late if you ask for it on the day and he hasn’t got one

Thanks @scott_d and @townfanjon. He’s bringing a Spirovent RV2 with him after I asked him if we should fit one. I just forgot to ask if it affects the Water Flow..
Also having a Fernox TF1 Omega Filter fitted (The newer brass/silver bodied one) an in-line Scale Inhibitor (Electrolytic type- not magnetic) and a Shock Arrestor.. He’s also upsizing my Supply, from the Gas Meter to Combi; from 22mm to 28mm.
He’s given me a very fair price and he’s got really good Reviews too! So overall I’m quite impressed. (And happy- You don’t get to say THAT too often, these days!)

 

[Best]

Why do you need a Spirovent deaerator on a sealed heating system (combi)?
Will speed up removing the micro bubbles, but once the air finally gets out of a sealed system it isn’t needed I would think

 

[Jay Kay]

@Best Thanks for your reply. We’ve got plastic pipes, to the Radiators, in the 2 Extensions that were added to the house, by the previous occupier. The rest are copper..
But I just got a call from my RG Installer. (We’ve had to put the installation back a day, to Tuesday) He says we don’t need to have the Spirovent RV2 de-aerator fitted..!
The ATAG Economiser has a built in ‘air-vent’ and as it’s going upstairs, at the highest point in the system, I don’t need an Aearator.
So that’s a hundred odd quid he’s saved me!
I knew I liked him!

 

[Jay Kay]

PS: I just wanted to add; I think it’s amazing how a lot of you guys, especially the RGI Qualified and other knowledgeable fella’s, come on these kinds of Forums and help us, the ‘Average Joe’ out with help and advice..
It’s Very Much Appreciated and I just wanted all you guys to know that..
Thankyou.

 

[Best]

@Best Thanks for your reply. We’ve got plastic pipes, to the Radiators, in the 2 Extensions that were added to the house, by the previous occupier. The rest are copper..
But I just got a call from my RG Installer. (We’ve had to put the installation back a day, to Tuesday) He says we don’t need to have the Spirovent RV2 de-aerator fitted..!
The ATAG Economiser has a built in ‘air-vent’ and as it’s going upstairs, at the highest point in the system, I don’t need an Aearator.
So that’s a hundred odd quid he’s saved me!
I knew I liked him!

Okay, - so it is because you have some of your system piped in plastic pipework, that aerator is to be fitted?

 

[Jay Kay]

Okay, - so it is because you have some of your system piped in plastic pipework, that aerator is to be fitted?

Hi. Yes, that was part of the reason. But really just to give the system the best possible chance of staying clean and protecting the Combi..
However, we’re not having it now. As I’m told the Atag has a ‘built-in’ air vent. And as the Boiler will be fitted at the highest point in the system, my Installer feels we don’t really need the Spiro’ RV2 de-aerator..
..Just as a matter of interest, do you think it’s worth having them, de-aerators? In systems without ‘built in’ air vents. (Specifically in Domestic Combi-Boiler Systems.. Thanks)

 

[Welder]

Okay, - so it is because you have some of your system piped in plastic pipework, that aerator is to be fitted?

Plastic 'barrier' pipe is gas permeable Best. The only thats not is MLCP.