6129 and... part 2...

[hiretools]

the majority of plumbers on here seem to have a real issue with 6129's as you so put it just coz we splashed the cash and skipped all the boring rubbish we are assumed stupid if you think doing a year course equals a 6129 then why not as said in my previous thread with the market the way it is in 4 years u lot will be workin for peanuts and will prob look for carrer changes leave the critisism out unless you know it for a fact....Hiretools... dont like it tuff find another thread to look at..........

P.s most people on here have wot is called life experience which is the same as for the fast trackers ur only as good as ur last job or do people not watch cowboy builders and watchdog and rogue traders most of them are not fast track but just dont give a monkey's....anyone weather collage or fast track can only call themselves a experienced plumber by gaining experience... get the pic it takes time whatever route you go down

 

[oldplumber]

from what you tried to say i presume you think short courses are preferable to doing a college/apprenticeship scheme, you might try an english course sooner rather than later, as your last thread made no real sense.

 

[newbie1]

someone seems to have spat their dummy on the floor

 

[hiretools]

My english is perfectly fine thanks Old plumber and i never said do fast track not collage its a personal preference thats all i have the upmost respect for people going down the collage route but seeing as how my thread called 6129 and part 1 was withdrawn i guess this thread does not make alot of sense.. Just thought i would stick up for the 6129ers as they should not be dettered from the negative press that they get on here if thats the route they want to go down.. Hiretools... Live Long And Prosper........ Peace Out Dude..... P.S Im 38 and have not sucked a dummy in 10 years so there...

 

[thebeatmeister]

What is 'fast track?"
I'm doing the t4t course. It involves water regs (to bpec standards), building regs (inc part p), c&g 6022,6032-2,6129, fairly in depth home study that's taken me nearly two years to complete to a level where i'm ready for my first practical assessment week (of which there are six) all contained within an nvq2 qualification which, after getting the aforementioned qualifications requires that i then have to gain 'hands on' practical work with a qualified plumber before i can acrew enough porfolio evidence to even be considered assessable. If i'm lucky..i mean RREEEEAALLY lucky and manage to get my nvq2 i can then go on to study for my level 3.
Is this really a fasttrack course? Or is any course that isn't an apprenticeship a 'fast track' course?
Is the 6128 and a night school course really that different from what i'm doing for example (ignoring cost for a moment) or are we all splitting hairs here. If i could sell my own mother for an apprenticeship i would because I know how pivotal it is to learning a trade properly but it seems no-ones interested in taking on a mature student/apprentice. They're all suffering under the recession, don't want to train the opposition or just to scared to be seen taking on a mature student because of what their mates might say..!
A year ago i sent out in excess of 50 letters to local plumbers and firms and even offered two days a weeks work FREE OF CHARGE...no replies.
I wonder if the technical certificates and how they're obtained is really worth the squabbling when it's the hands on training that really makes the difference to a persons compitency..and right now..i don't see anyone stepping forward.

 

[WHPES]

I have seen work of a very high standard done by fast trackers, and extremely poor work done by a time served plumber round here.

I am very highly qualified in pipeline engineering, but had to do a fast track course to get ready for the level 2. Most of the stuff is the same and I had done years ago at college, but I can see why someone without any prior experience might struggle in places.

Obviously a lot is down to experience but it's also down the the individual's willingness and ability to learn, and technical competence.

 

[oldplumber]

lot better things out there to suck on than dummies ..........icecream, for one lol

seriously though my bug bear with short courses and learning at home is they lob out people who chances are have no real experience in most cases and limited knowledge. my local college is currently not letting the 2nd year 6129 kids back to start their level 3 time unless they have found an appreticeship place to allow them to pass a level 2 nvq first. drastic but sound reasoning behind the thought process, not good for the kids. im trying to help one out but he wont earn me any money, no experience lol, and i dont want to be paying out £100 a week with no real return, and government will give £1000 subsidy 400 up front, but that only covers 4 weeks pay for him, the final 600 o/c his time a college, so no real incentive for sole traders to take on kids then. having had some one works experience, the current trend is that they forget to arrive for work, damage the customer property when they are with you and the 3rd party insurance is a bit if a shock when the bill arrives

 

[thebeatmeister]

At least you ARE trying to train someone OP. Raises you above many in the present climate...
I would offer good work ethic. A genuine respect and concern for customers property as i've owned (and decorated) my own for years and know the value of money. I also have a better understanding of my own limitations than a young'un. I wouldn't do anything unless my mentor was happy with my ability with a 'dry run' first..and even then i would be more comfortable doing the job under supervision. The plumber could stand and have a rollie whilst i did the work if he wanted!! I'd turn up on time leave at the end of the day, do the work for free, pay for my own tuition and support HIS buisiness whilst i was part of it..it would be the least i could do. It is my belief that once the confidence has been earned my imput would actually end up making HIM money...
Now you tell me why i still haven't had any bites yet.......I have my own ideas...!!..it's this whole 'mature' crap and the fact that it's written into the traditional stone tablets of the industry that all apprentices/students need to be young, impressionable and open to a good dose of character building....It's an almost unbeatable barrier to someone in my position but it is almost solely responsible for the viscious circle of the practical experience question that seems to exist.....

ps OP i've even offered to pay for my own insurance in my applications.

 

[newbie1]

its a lot simpler than that

there is a genuine lack of work what possible benefit is it to any tradesman to take on someone who quite likely will as soon as poss up sticks and set up as a competitor..plain and simple

 

[thebeatmeister]

..I can fully accept your reasoning and see your point N1 but what do you suggest would be the solution to the problem of a lack of practical training in new plumbing students that wouldn't result in either a whole load of badly trained new plumbers/tradesmen coming through or, at worse bring the industry to its knees....
As for training the opposition what difference does it make..whether you're training a mature student or an apprentice they'll still end up being your opposition and for every applicant you turn down there's a few more you DON'T know about. We could accept there's going to be a load of badly trained plumbers coming through or pull our belts in and try and help a few..the alternative is no students at all during the fiscal/market recession and where would that leave us?
I HATE the idea that i might have to start plumbing without a good quota of supervised practical training but i'll do it if i have to. I think with a good degree of common sense and a a readyness to make sure you always walk before you can run as you progress it is possible to become a respectable plumber..

 

[Dave]

If your last thread was pulled then why have you stared another on the same subject..???

Think about it.. it is confrontational and is a form of forum trolling..

Do not restart threads that have been closed or removed.. it is against forum rules and you can have your account removed or it.

Thanks Admin.