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Discuss 3 zone EvoHome setup? in the Central Heating Forum area at UKPlumbersForums.co.uk.

  1. Chevalier

    Chevalier New Member

    Hi,

    Wonder if someone can help, been trying to get an answer from Honeywell but can’t seem to get through with email or phonecalls :)

    I’m replumbing my house (engineer, not a plumber) and am looking to do the below using EvoHome, but not sure if it works as I expect.

    Setup:
    S-Plan
    Worchester Combi boiler
    3 Zones
    -UFH, one large room
    -Rads downstairs
    -Rads upstairs


    Think I need to purchase the below, but any input would be great!

    1 * Evo Home controller and Relay (this does zone 1)
    https://theevohomeshop.co.uk/en/hon...me-connected-thermostat-pack-atp921r3100.html

    2 * thermostats/relay combination (these do zones 2 and 3)
    https://theevohomeshop.co.uk/en/hon...ostat-dt92e.html?search_query=dt92e&results=4

    3* motorised valves (closed)
    https://theevohomeshop.co.uk/en/mot...43h1056-22mm-motorised-2-port-zone-valve.html

    Thanks
     
  2. Stanios

    Stanios Plumber GSR

    Yep spot on. However if you are unsure about this right at the beginning I would advise you to hire an evo installer to install this for you. Wiring 3 zones into single wiring centre can get quite messy and requires pros touch.
     
  3. Stoney Ground

    Stoney Ground GSR

    Or an electrician and then a cleaner to tidy up :clap:
     
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  4. Stanios

    Stanios Plumber GSR

    An electrician, cleaner then a plumber to rewire it so it works
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  5. Chevalier

    Chevalier New Member

    I'd be happy enough on the wiring side, but the initial config isn't' really shown online anywhere so didn't fancy ordering a few hundred quid of kit to find it doesn't do what I want :)

    Thanks for the help
     
  6. hENRYDAC

    hENRYDAC New Member

    This might be what you're looking for

    IMAG0209.jpg
     
  7. Worcester

    Worcester Plumber

    Just in case the OP didn't get the answer a Honeywell Evohome system can only operate one heating zone valve per central controller, 'sub zones' are managed by the radiators stats. a second 'zone' valve can operate the DHW.
    If you need more than one heating zone valve, you have to have more that one Evohome central controller.
     
  8. Chuck

    Chuck Top Contributor!!

    You'll probably have more luck getting advice from:

    Contact Us - The EVOHOME Shop

    you want pre-sales technical support.

    Edit: Oops, old thread. Still, someone might find the pointer useful.
     
  9. Chevalier

    Chevalier New Member

    Thanks for all the comments, have been silent but planning in the mean time!

    I purchased the list I initially made and Honeywell said it would work, but there's no wiring diagrams that match my setup so I created the below wiring diagram - anyone here familiar enough to spot if I have any mistakes in it? (clearly I am avoiding other necessary building work by making a diagram like this!!)

    Seems like the orange/grey wire use is reversedon the EPH valve I have (compared to other online discussions) so included details of it here too..

    Thanks in advance..

    View attachment 30940

    3 zone EvoHome Wiring Diagram.png

    BDR91 schematic.jpg

    EPH V221P Valve Schematic.jpg
     
  10. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Looks fine but a needs to be linked to the live (normally just link the live to A )

    Would connect n to main neutral and not neutral S on the boiler
     
  11. Chuck

    Chuck Top Contributor!!

    This can be done inside the BDR-91s

    I'd leave it as shown on the diagram. Best practice is not to steal neutrals. By connecting to NS one is assured that when the boiler is isolated (it should have a double pole disconnection method) all the CH wiring is dead.

    The issue I see with the OP's diagram is the L and N terminals have a lot of wires going into them. Might be worth using a couple of links and putting the unused terminals to work if things are going to be too tight.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  12. Chevalier

    Chevalier New Member

    Thanks for the quick replies!

    For the link from live to A, I did this inside the BDR91 with the red fork in the diagram 0 is this what you guys mean? I also looped L to L to A if that makes sense..

    Thanks again
     
  13. Chevalier

    Chevalier New Member

    Seems I forgot to add in the UFH pump which is separate to the boiler integrated pump!

    Can I just take the 220V from the grey wire the UFH zone valve and connect that to the UFH pump Live or will the current be too much? Not sure how else I could get the UFH pump to only come on with the UFH zone if not done that way.

    Thanks :)
     
  14. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    yes normally fed from the orange wire on a normal port valve so yes grey for you
     
  15. Worcester

    Worcester Plumber

    Unless Honeywell have changed something very significantly recently, as I understand it, one Evohome controller can only control a single heating zone valve - 1 x BDR91 for heating and 1 x BDR 91 for DHW.
    Please correct me if I'm wrong, as we are constantly discussing this requirement with Honeywell. (all new buildings >150m2 should have a minimum of 2 zones)
    They keep telling me that to to control three heating zone 2 port valves separately I'll need 3 Evohome controllers.
     
  16. Chevalier

    Chevalier New Member

    Ah, not in my diagram are the two wireless temp sensors.. the DT92E is a wireless sensor and relay box all in one pack, so I bind the two temp sensors to the evoHome controller to get my 3 zones. Technically I guess I have a spare DHW zone on the evoHome that's not used.

    Will let you know if that doesn't work:)
     
  17. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    3 zones on a combi boiler so 3 controllers which he's got
     
  18. Worcester

    Worcester Plumber

    I got that :) - It's the fact that @Chevalier@Chevalier wants to control them all from a single evohome controller.
    I don't think you can bind a DT92E to BOTH the Evohome and the BDR91. A DT92E has no timer in it, timing and comfort settings are controlled by the evohome. A DT92E is a wireless thermostat only (optionally packaged / purchased with a BDR91)

    As I understand it the evohome can use a DT92E in lieu of the TRV (HR92) sensors where they may be covered / obscured by curtains, or in the wrong position for a room sensor, the evohome then controls the appropriate TRV's (HR92's) for that room and as usual sends a signal to a single BDR91 for the zone/pump/boiler call for heat.

    I did mention all this back in May.
     
  19. Chevalier

    Chevalier New Member

    Been stressing about this all day in work wondering if it would work, so thought I'd power up the DT92E/BDR91 pair and also the BDR that came with the EvoController on their own and see if it worked... the power leads from 2 kitchen implements were sacrificed for this and I was warned about cutting the lead off a 3rd!! :rolleyes:

    So it seems to have worked after a lot of trial and error. I setup 2 new zones as "Zone Valves". For the first zone I said the EvoController was not the controller and I was asked to bind the thermostat first(DT92), then the actuator(BDR91). For the second zone I clicked yes to use the EvoController as the controller and was just asked to bind the second actuator(BDR91).

    I can see the 2 zones on the EvoController and can turn the BDRs on and off by messing with the target temp and can also do the same from the DT92 and also the iPhone app..

    Will pick up a 3rd power lead tomorrow and give the 3rd zone a go but it seems like you bind everything to the EvoController and it manages the interaction between the DT92 and BDR for that zone.

    Image of the 2 zones setup below

    DT92E bound to EvoController.jpg
     
  20. Worcester

    Worcester Plumber

    Pleased to be proved wrong :) - keep us informed as to binding the 3rd zone.

    Though we would normally control underfloor heating room by room, rather than just as a single zone.
     
  21. robj20

    robj20 Member

    Having just done my whole house with evohome.
    You can have a fair few zones, each actuator just requires a relay (bdr91), you also have a bdr91 for the boiler.
    You can then have either the controller or external thermostats as the sensors. You certainly wouldnt require multiple evohome controllers.
     
  22. Chevalier

    Chevalier New Member

    Can confirm it worked with 3 zones after a lot of messing around. I had a lot of issues with Comms Faults to one of the actuators having had it off overnight but it's now back working having unbound and bound it a number of times and doing connectivity tests from the EvoHome.

    Does anyone else experience a lot of server connectivity issues with the iPhone app? It seems to be really slow and just stops working for minutes at a time..

    To summarise for others who may read in future, my setup is:
    -UFH Zone 1 - EvoHome(wifi built in) + BDR91
    -All Downstairs Rads Zone 2 - DT92E pack that comes with a DT92E and a BDR91 (all these rads on a single motorised valve)
    -All Upstairs Rads Zone 3 - DT92E pack that comes with a DT92E and a BDR91 (all these rads on a single motorised valve)

    "Though we would normally control underfloor heating room by room, rather than just as a single zone." - I only have UFH in the new extension so just have a single room in this case, though there are 3 loop with actuators supplied but don't see the need to use them. Honeywell do a separate UFH controller unit that does 5 zones that should tie back into the EvoHome but I didn't look too closely at it.
     
  23. Worcester

    Worcester Plumber


    Thnaks @robj20@robj20, we've been pushing for this for ages from honeywell, - we're even a certified installer for Honeywell and on they're internal list of recognised evohome 'experts' yet we hadn't been notified of this capability!!! - They just wanted to push the Lyric system, which would never provide the functionality required on our installations. - I'll chase them!!

    From memory we are on version 4 of the Evohome controller (they claim version 3, however version 2 had 2 incarnations :) ) so this must have been introduced in the latest version. - Great News!!

    Even better we've got 2 of the latest ones in our store, what though is really interesting is this is from the latest Evohome faq guide:

    evohome

    S Plan Plus – how do I control more than one heating zone valve?

    Ideally you should simplify the installation however in certain cases it is possible to control an S Plan plus system

    CAUTION ADVANCED APPLICATION*
    Either wire both/all heating zone valves into the Heating relay (n.b. they will all open on a heat demand from any zone)
    Or
    Bind multiple relays in at Heating valve in the Guided Config. All relays need to be in listening mode when the binding signal is sent from the evohome controller. (n.b. they will all open on a heat demand from any zone).

    So they're stating it won't work the way we're thinking it will - very strange...

    However the latest installation guide does appear to allow BDR91's to be bound to individual evohome zones...

    Even stranger.

    I've got the direct line o the guides at Honeywell, I'll call them in the morning :)
     
  24. Worcester

    Worcester Plumber

    Got to the bottom of it today - we're both correct :)

    If you use HR92's or HR80's - the radiator stat, you can't link that 'zone' directly to a bdr91, so you have two choices:
    'Zone' controlled by radiator stats and send a simple call to heat to boiler (single zone valve for whole system)
    or
    'Zone' controlled by a wall stat (Y8 / DT92) and radiators controlled by 'traditional' TRV's and a unique BDR91

    These can be mixed within an evohome installation i.e zones controlled by room stats and their own zone valve AND zones controlled by Radiator stats.
    Both types also call the 'system' BDR91 (Boiler call for heat)

    So, you can have 2 'system' BDR91's - Hot Water and Call for Heat
    plus TRV / Room Stat controlled BDR91's

    Interesting discussion with Honeywell though, was that if you aren't going radiator by radiator and don't need / want a fixed central controller (evohome controller), then you are probably better off using the Lyric T6 connected thermostat and using the Apple or Android Lyric app as the central control for all the stats....
     
  25. deg

    deg Member

    All this stuff is new to me and my head is pickled just reading this post. Wouldn't want to be fault finding on one of these eco setups.
    Are these the future?
     
  26. Worcester

    Worcester Plumber

    All depends what you want. All the systems we've installed in the last 2 years have been of the 'connected' nature
    We install:
    Lots of Heatmiser Neo
    Evohome
    Occasionally Lyric T6 (lacks a Hot water module at the moment :( )
    Salus iT500
    Very Occasionally Nest.

    We are careful to choose what right for the system, the house and the client.
     
  27. Chuck

    Chuck Top Contributor!!

    They're fashionable at the moment but I suspect the future will include an army of heating engineers systematically replacing the first generation of 'smart' controls with one that are a lot less confusing for the end-user.
     
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  28. Worcester

    Worcester Plumber

    Actually most of the properties we are working on are getting smarter and smarter. 1st gen was X10, now we're on 2nd gen with Loxone, Control 4, Schneider C-Bus, plus 3rd gen coming through working on mesh networks (zigbee etc) and interfacing with Apple Homekit and Watch, Amazon Echo & Alexa, IFTTT, Android and IOS Apps.

    Simples really :)

    There again we invest between one and two months salary per year in training on each employee, as well as giving the the time to do it, so that they are ahead of the curve.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  29. robj20

    robj20 Member

    Some people just don't understand it so think it's rubbish. Shame really.
    I'm an end user and evohome is as simple as it gets when you get your head around it.
    People just lack the training.
    My boiler installer had never done an evohome or Opentherm install. He took one look through the manual and got it all working with ease.

    Have mine setup with ifttt and Geo fencing and find it very convenient. All makes for a system that only heats the rings we want when we want.
     
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