3 plumbers all different suggestion whos right

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Husain

Need your help guys

I am updating my plumbing and and heating for my house.

Background information 4 bedroom semi detached in London with a old lead pipe from mains. Current boiler is a old gravity feed system. We have 7 adults who live here and 2 shower a bathtub. Everyone has a shower in the evening and we having to wait at least 40 mins for hot water after it's empty.

We have a cylinder in an airing cupboard with is very old and small for our needs. The boiler is an old boiler which does not work to well.

So what I want is to have a powerful shower with hot water enough for use to have a shower without waiting 40mins every time someone had a shower.

Heres the different suggestion I have got.
All the plumbers are in agreement that I would need a system boiler with a unvented resdurised clyinder.

One plumber is insisting on upgrading my mains to 22 mm and that would give me enough pressure.

Another says that he would put a pump on the cold water tank in the loft

The other says he would put a pump on the hot water feed from the cylinder just to showers and bathtub


The existing flow is fine for washing hands and dishes but not good for a shower and I currently have a plastic cold water tank in loft. Plumbers have checked when of peak and I am getting less the 1 bar and about 10 for flow rate.

So what would you all suggest your help will be welcomed and if you need any other ingot then please let me know?

I
 
Unfortunately its going to come down to money personaly id recommend you up size your hot water cylinder and roof tank if needed then pump your shower feeds. The next problem that could arise is your boiler powerful enough to cope heating the cylinder and running the heating at the same time
 
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I was looking at the woster bosh 30cdi

I have been quotes near 4500-5000 to complete the job how much more can this job cost
 
I'd suggest that for a 4-bed house in London (worth a good half million) that 1% of the value to cover plumbing is pretty good value to be honest.
 
Your mains flow and pressure would need to be checked to see if a unvented cylinder can be fitted.
 
Yeah that'll have enough output and 5000 grand should cover it
 
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Combi will struggle to supply two showers at the same time. If you decide on combi make second shower electric, this will be useful as back up when combi breaks down. Much depends on the users, someone who enjoys 30 minute showers will deplete the hot water stored in an unvented cylinder especially if cold water feed pressure is improved. If these are your circumstances, better to increase the size of your hot water cylinder to the maximum space will allow and regard low pressure as a means of saving hot water for those who are last in line for a shower.
 
Right so I was looking at a 300lt tank which hopefully should be aple and with recovery times for hot water at 20mins believe it should be fine. I believe that adding a electric shower might not be a great idea as have this currently a it has no power and life span seems to last about 2 yrs with everyone showering everyday. 7 showers a day for twos years seems to burn them out.


So as I understand your advice a 300lt unvented clyinder with a system boiler would be okay?

But what about the problem with the pressure to pump or not to pump? And if so where do I put the pump I.e cold water tank, cylinder or else where ?


P.s thanks for Info so far
 
You're getting your wires crossed pal. I think only one of these installers is offering you unvented, as the other 2 are suggesting pumps.
 
Unless they are talking about a booster set because of poor incoming mains pressure and flow rate TB
 
Best way imho
Is a 300ltr fast recovery time cylinder (ACV would be best choice for this with solar coil )
Solar panels (if you do don't fit cheap chinese rubbish kingspan thermomax would be my recommendation tubes not panels )
Break tank in loft ( would probably need extra support for weight and calculated for the water consumption )
And pumped to cylinder
Mains will need upgraded
And it will cost ????? More than you think
Hope that helps
 
ring me on 07725500910 but i think massood has already emailed you we work together a lot of the time so either number
 
PowerFlusher2 ,Don't have to live with the mother-in-law and don't have to wait for a warm shower.
 
Hi Husain

If you go unvented you will not need any pumps for showers as it will be all at mains pressure which should be enough (especially if you upgrade incoming as was previously suggested

I have 4 story (now I've converted the loft) 4/5 bed with pressurised heating and unvented hw (150 litre santon), which is enough for 4 children and two adults most of the time

At the squash club I belong to I specified a Mega flow 300 litre unvented, it can cope with 6 players rotating at 40 minute intervals throughout the evening (finishing 8.00pm) without running out (although the boiler is firing in DHW mode through this time as well.

So a 300l tank for domestic should be ample

For further info on recovery times see the leaflet (page 8)

http://www.megaflo-unvented.co.uk/Megaflo_Literature_Issue_19.pdf

For instance for a 300l tank with an indirect input from a boiler of 20 kw gives a recovery time of 33mins, so if boiler is firing or the secondary immersion is on at max demand, I cant see you ever running out of HW, so maybe a smaller tank would suffice?

Speak to Heatrae Sadia

regards

Russ
 
PowerFlusher2 said:
(APOLOGIES FOR GOING OFF TOPIC BUT THIS MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL)

7 adults living there? How much council tax do you pay then? I live next door with my wife - our houses are exactly the same size - and I bet it is exactly the same amount of council tax. You put out 8 or 9 bin bags every week; we put out 1. Who, therefore is paying for the extra services you use by having 7 adults living in the house, but paying only one amount of council tax? THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE POLL TAX WAS DESIGNED TO PREVENT!

(must remember to take a couple of extra Prozac caps before I go to bed tonite)
Click to expand...


Go to your happy place powerflusher2! Blimey, I thought I could rant! :rant:
 
Having recommended a 250 litre megaflow to a client, two adults only, I was confident it would have sufficient capacity to meet their needs. The wife, however, delighting in her new shower, extended her sessions and was still capable of depleting most of the hot water. Whilst I would estimate on 45 litres per person of storage being adequate in most circumstances you must design for known anticipated usage. Recovery times on tanks can be misleading as it assumes optimum temperatures and flow rates for primary flow from boiler and does not necessarily relate to the heat required to rise 300 litres of water through 55 degrees C in a given time.eg:- 300 x 55 x 4.2 divided by (20 x 60), means a heat output of 57 Kw,(64 Kw boiler at 90% efficiency), to heat the water in 20 minutes. Treat your hot water cylinder as a heat bank from which you can draw hot water that the boiler fails to fully replace at the rate of usage. The greater your flow at the shower head the larger your cylinder and boiler need to be. Accepting an adequate but less powerful shower could mean keeping your existing boiler and will certainly reduce your water bills. Sort your cylinder out first, upgrade your boiler as necessary and have immersion heater in cylinder for when boiler not working.
 
PowerFlusher2 said:
(APOLOGIES FOR GOING OFF TOPIC BUT THIS MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL)

7 adults living there? How much council tax do you pay then? I live next door with my wife - our houses are exactly the same size - and I bet it is exactly the same amount of council tax. You put out 8 or 9 bin bags every week; we put out 1. Who, therefore is paying for the extra services you use by having 7 adults living in the house, but paying only one amount of council tax? THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE POLL TAX WAS DESIGNED TO PREVENT!

(must remember to take a couple of extra Prozac caps before I go to bed tonite)
Click to expand...

Well move to a smaller house then. If there are just two of you you only need a one bedroom flat. It's your choice to live in a house that is bigger than your needs.
 
Masood and Steve had a look at the job today thank you guys for comming down so quickly. All I can say was they was all lot of shaking their heads was going on. Lol but I am confident with the two of them they will be able to give me a solution. I will update the post to tell everyone what was decided.

Keep suggestions comming in as their is alot of difference of opion and some good comments and ideas to.
 
Sounds like a dream team to me. But one likes tea, the other likes coffee!
 
If recovery times are an issue, would an oso super series be a good idea? They come packed with the 24kw coil.
 
No doubt that there will be a few specialists suggesting system boiler as it is a common and fail-safe option for multiple showers installation, I prefer a powerful combi-boiler (maybe even more than one for larger houses) with good flow rate and backup cylinder for such installations. 300L hot water tank (I would suggest mains pressure one) will provide enough water for about 30 minutes of good shower water flow, divide this duration by the number of showers to get the actual duration.
P.S. I personally don't think that it is reasonable to measure the cost of such upgrade in relation to house price.
 
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dontknowitall said:
I'd suggest that for a 4-bed house in London (worth a good half million) that 1% of the value to cover plumbing is pretty good value to be honest.
Click to expand...

I don't live in a house worth anything near the figure of half a million but I will sell it to you for 400,000 if you want. Lol bargin
 
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