Your opinions please?

[Blackcatgas]

Oh dear.

 

[ocentric]

He's not a plumber or a tiler. He's an odd job enthusiast. You're right to contact trading standards but they can't help with compensation. You need to get 3 quotes to put it right (complete rip out & re-do), then persue him through the small claims court for the money you spent with him, the money to correct & inconvenience.
Unfortunately, he probably won't have insurance so I think that in the long run this will be an expensive mistake that you won't make again.

 

[Resolute]

I don't think £1k is too expensive for a weeks work, however I would expect it done properly for that.

Have you contacted him again to see if he is prepared to put it right?

How old was he per chance?

 

[PlumbBobBob]

i'm not a tiler by trade but i would have done a better job especially in that corner, two half tiles? probably to get away from a slither of tile in the corner.did he think he wouldn't be found out? what if someone "large" were to use the toilet and it tipped over or someone had a dizzy spell and leant on the basin for support? not good mate.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

likes his flexys and plastic, tiling just terrible a true botcher

 

[Phil2010]

I`ve sent him a letter on the advice of consumer direct, giving him 21 days for everything to be brought upto a reasonable standard, by recorded delivery, and they have advised me to wait for his response. I`m considering contacting roguetraders to see if they want to follow it up. I don`t want anyone else to fall victim like we have. He lives in a big house in a nice location, and he doesn`t seem to be trading as a limited company. I`ve paid for some online checks for judgements etc against his trading name and address, and there`s nothing on file. Hopefully, this strengthens my chances of recovering my losses in the event of it going to court.

 

[Phil2010]

I`m tempted to contact an expert plumbing witness service, to get a professional independent report, but I`ve a feeling that it could be expensive, and will see what advice trading standards/consumer direct give me first.

 

[Avatar]

this guy definately isnt a plumber, he must be some one who has jumped on the 'im a plumber' bandwagon (like yesterday by the look of it !)

Alas once you pay, its kind of acnkowlaging that the work is acceptable. Your rights of sale demand that the job is of a 'reasonable' standard, which it obviously isn't! You will have to proove that it isnt if you take recource in court, so you would need an inpendant plumber to maybe write a report for you. Check the following always, as they are 101 cowboys with their dogs out there who are posing as plumbers:

- public liability insurance is a must
- a formal qualification (city and guilds/NVQ)
- referances, referances referances (you are silly if you dont ask for them!)
- check how many years they have been duly employed

I have to sya that this is the kind of job I expect to get called back to, when the customer had gone for a £400 quote - not £1000!

It seems you didn't pay peanuts, but you still got a monkey!

Also check how your bath is fixed to the wall, as you are risking serious damage if you fill it up, and it just has a bit of silicon at the back!

 

[Phil2010]

Avatar, please could you advise me what to look for with regards to the bath? I know that there is no kind of framework because the bath panel was siliconed to the walls at each end, and it would appear that when he returned to refit it, hes put a couple of blocks of wood at each end and screwed into them through the panel. There`s a lot of movement in it.

 

[fuzzy]

is the bath on legs?

 

[Phil2010]

Yes, I remember seeing what looked like four adjustable threaded legs, with plastic feet on.

 

[Henno82]

are these secured to the floor?

 

[REDSAW]

i think more of a builder or plasterer type person did this job.
personally, although i cant see all the work involved, would charge around £1200, but it would be done to your expectations wherever possible.
some of the grout- a bit picky, as in bad light can be hard to see or you miss some or its dried a bit, no problem going over it again when pointed out.
the main thing for me is the crap pipe work that sends signals to the standard.
the basin, well i have siliconed some to walls before but you would need a crowbar to pull them of. the ped, seen loads without steady screws at back. the ped' is supposed to be removable for maintenance but i silly top and bottom of mine to stop big feet slapping it about when kicked.
group it all together bit dissapointing really if he dont keep you happy by rectifying.

 

[Phil2010]

Thanks for your input Redsaw. The grouting is consistently like that. The basin is fitted at a strange angle and water does`t drain properly from the surface where the taps are. There is ptfe tape visible on nearly every joint that screws together. If you run your hand across the tiling, there are lips everywhere. I appreciate that things are done to tolerances, but the walls are pretty good in all honesty. There is a full column of tiles that are below the rest of the surrounding tiles. I can`t understand how they are not level on the horizontal plane! It looks like he`s just slapped them on when you look closely, and they`ve slipped.

 

[fuzzy]

no tape needed on the thread of a compression joint, in fact it makes it more likely to leak

 

[Avatar]

Hi phil -

get your head under the bath with a torch, and get a look at the back of the bath that is against the wall. You should see a wooden support batten (you would if I fixed it!), or at least some kind of metal bracket. My fears are that there are neither of these there.

If the bath is full of water, and you get in it, it is a huge wieght to support - I even build a wooden frame round the sides and front of the bath as if you put all your wieght on a full bath front edge, with no support the whole lot could go through your ceiling.

If you need to use the bath, someone needs to fit a frame on it asap!

Good luck!

 

[fuzzy]

ive just fitted an 1800mm at home, its massive! not just longer but deeper and wider too. ive placed a 5/8th board under the whole bath, put the legs on it screwed in, the legs are on strips of timber and screwed to them and the bath fits tight into an area on 3 out of 4 sides. i siliconed the bath to the walls and then siliconed the edges. when i filled it and got in i noticed the back of the bath was dropping about 3/4"!!! ive sinced built a frame to support the back end of the bath and all seems well. this goes to show how much support baths need

 

[metaldust9]

if i was you i would just cut your losses and get someone proper to fix it if they will take it on,most plumbers wont go to other peoples work/cock ups.ive done good jobs and not been paid for the slightest thing had one were they didnt like the tiles they,d picked ,and wanted them swaping at my expence i said no ive got other work and couldnt do it and i didnt get paid the full amount and id saved them £2000 on meterials cos got them on my account,silly me ,ive learnt that one ,thats why i try not to do bathrooms anymore unless theres nothing else,anything under £5000 you wont get anything for, i went to a solicitor to get paid and was told this,you might win m8 in the small claims court but if he doesnt turn up or pay there nothing you can do sorry to tell ye this but been down this road but on rogue customer side,so i would just say clear of the bloke and the courts and learn from it and in future check peoples work first from work they,ve done may cost you some more money but better than paying out more for nothing

 

[Phil2010]

Hi Metaldust9. I fully sympathise with your problems with regards to rogue customers. I`ve returned to University as a mature student but I`m a stonemason by trade. I`ve worked for firms carving natural stone fire surrounds, and that can be a minefield! Customers pick their design and what stone they desire, and then they are explicitly told before hand that stone is a natural product and there can be variations within it, such as mineral deposits etc. All firms strive to manufacture the entire product from the same slab and batch to minimise any variation but you can never be entirely sure what lurks below the suface until you cut into it. Any stone that contains bad blemishes or clay deposits is discarded, which increases your waste and price per cubic metre. Every effort is taken to ensure that the finished product is consistent, but I`ve seen customers complaining about the tiniest specks of mineral deposit which do not affect the overall aesthetics of the surround. You feel like telling them to sod off and go and buy a pre-cast concrete surround! Some people are overly fussy! In a lot of cases it actually adds character and individuality to the surround!

 

[metaldust9]

hi m8 not trying to put you off what you want to do ,but just think you got a bad,bad one there, there,s bad and theres BAD just think the money you will waste like i have trying to get somewere with this bloke is a waste of time and worry+money plus i bet if ye done a bit off checking the,ll be other people withthe same things wrong,we all have jobs that go wrong and become a mare but yours just looks obvious, like he dont no what hes doing what if you have people round ie kids leaning in the sink plus them pipes should be buried in the wall

ive only fitted one sink with silicone as there was nothing to fix anything to without taking all the tiles off and putting battons in and the old fella didnt want that doing so discused it with him and gave him my number if any probs and i would go back for free if need be and he was happy

hope you get it sorted mate

 

[fuzzy]

ive fitted quire a few basins with only silicone, some ive fitted recently dont even have holes for screws so are designed that way!
it depends how its fitted, if its fitted well and sturdy then silicone is fine. the rest of the job is obviously a bodge and id always add that to the list of complaints to add weight to it

 

[WaterTight]

I'm glad fuzzy and redsaw have both mentioned that it can be permissable to silicone basins to walls/floors. First few pages of this thread I was feeling like a con artist for doing it. When you try and take one off that's been properly siliconed you realise how strong it can hold. You're lucky if you don't pull the tiles off with it. I've had to take a break for a few seconds to catch my breath in between trying to wrench one off before. So I don't except that a heavy person leaning on it (with the pedestal underneath it too) would risk pulling it off. The force necessary would just as easily crack where the screws might have alternatively been fixed.

And as has been said some basins are supplied without holes for basin or pedestal. I also fitted a WC the other day that had no fixing holes on the pan. First I've seen like that. It was a fancy imported oddity and it weighed an absolute tonne though.

But yes, the truth is - every time a plumber silicones a basin to the wall it is not done because it's best practise or an industry-excepted method. It's done to save time. Time is money and drilling and fixing to tiles can be a faff and, let's face it, sometimes difficult to get right. And there are some surfaces where it would probably be quite unwise like a crumbly lath and plaster wall etc..

 

[mo7]

My advise would be to get someone else in to remdy all the work you feel incorrect (get 3 quotes as suggested above)

You should then persue the original tradesman for that cost of the remedial work.

Under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 you should give him a chance to rectify, which he has failed to do. Looks like a cut and shut case in the small claims court

The question is whether he will pay the judgement, you should be prepared for the scenario that he doesn't.

 

[metaldust9]

mo7 obviously its not happened to you to try and get money through the small c c its a mare and like i said earlier anything under £5000 no one wants to no, your word against there,s reciepts proof what youve bought origanal quote in writiing with other quotes if you go down the debt collection route thats £600 before you do owt been there ,seen the film, eat the soup etc better just gettin it fixed and learning from it

ps happened 3 times in 3 yrs got no were so have had to harden up a bit and stop being as nice

anyway all not postin on this no more cos its gettin longer and longer if phil goes down small cc route he Will pay out loads for nothing
sorry phil m8 just my experience of it up to now

 

[PlumbBobBob]

i accept that a properly siliconed basin is hard to pull off the wall, i was going on the rest of the bathroom for fitting standard.

 

[mo7]

indeed, but the small claims court is his only route

well... legal route.

 

[Avatar]

you have to have a support batten on the back of the bath - not only to stop it sagging but also to hold it to the wall. Building a good one of these is a work of art in itself, but I have a pretty good way of doing it!

Silicon isnt enough in itself . . .

 

[johnspeed]

I would add that every item fitted in the bathroom should be fitted in accordance with manufacturers recomendations. Not sure if any manufacurers do recommend silicone.

 

[Phil2010]

Hi, after having already spent over £1000 pounds I`m prepared to spend a bit more on court fees, but hopefully he will acknowledge that he should have carried out the work to a reasonable standard in the first place and do the decent thing. A few people have seen the bathroom over Christmas and remarked that you just wouldn`t put your name to a job like that. The quality of the tiling is shocking. I`ve dug my level out and the walls are good in all honesty, making you wonder just how he has managed to get lips everywhere, and some of these lips are really bad. I think that an enthusiastic housewife armed with a copy of readers digest manual would have made a better job! At a glance from the top of the stairs, it looks ok and you see the 'newness' of it all, but once you are up close all of the faults jump out at you.
We`ve learned a lesson from this, the hard way, but I`ll do my best to ensure that other people are not left in our situation, and I`ve given him a fair and honest review on some sites. I don`t think that he should be allowed to even advertise as a plumber/bathroom fitter. It`s not fair on the genuine tradesmen who do a good job taking care and pride in their work. Thanks once again people for your comments and opinions!

 

[metaldust9]

oh well" having spent endless hours trying to save you money explaining my private situation to save you ive learnt a valuable lesson to about posting

ps,you wont stop this bloke working,have ye not watched cowboy builders

 

[Henno82]

Phil just a quick point regarding your comment left on here.....

Gibson Plumbing Services - Rossendale - BB4 8QG


You don't have to be gas safe to be competant other then that the rest is fine, that is all

 

[Phil2010]

Hi Henno82, thanks for pointing that out to me. It was potentially misleading and an unfair assumption so I`ve edited it. Thanks.

 

[Phil2010]

Hi Metaldust9, I understand and appreciate what you are saying but I`m in a catch22 situation. I can either write it off as a complete loss and pay again, or spend a bit more in the hope of recouping at least a portion of the money I`ve spent. Either way will cost me, but if there`s a possibility of recovering money then I feel that I should at least try.

 

[fuzzy]

it can sometimes be very awkward to drill a basin, and then to get it level! i do it because its quicker and easier and you dont always get a good fixing anyway, i bet half the basins that are screwed are actually held on by the silicone anyway!
the rest is a bodge though

 

[mkflow]

Thats a proper bodge job!