yet another trajedy

[REDSAW]

just heard on the news,

man dies in home at stanley common derby's
wife critically ill in hospital.

suspected boiler fault, hse to investigate cause.

 

[Kip]

Innocent your honour.

 

[migoplumber]

just saying your innocent isnt good enough. prove it. may i see your paperwork, for the last time you was on that job mr x. (you now provide your safety inspection ticket - unsigned by client) off to jail for a bit.
your safety ticket is signed by the client you say.... why havn't you listed the n.c.s faults that the fire brigade has just informed are the reason to this man's death. off to jail for a bit.

its an eye opener for all of us. get your paperwork signed, list every defect. its your only get out of jail free card.

 

[Kip]

And do these so called fire brigade men have a GSR ticket. I think not, case closed.

On a serious note, this will be another push for GSR to be more involed with the cowboys and gas dont mix and this might be a sign, or the sign of a bad engineers work.

 

[migoplumber]

would be nice if that was so, dont believe it tho, could be a good reason to put up the registration prices though so they can educate the public ?!

imvho

 

[stevetheplumber]

just heard on the news,

man dies in home at stanley common derby's
wife critically ill in hospital.

suspected boiler fault, hse to investigate cause.

is it a gas boiler ?solid fuel can be every bit as dangerous

 

[REDSAW]

is it a gas boiler ?solid fuel can be every bit as dangerous

yes steve,
gas boiler on a terraced property with boiler in kitchen, the police recon it was a gas leak???????????

 

[Puddle]

Its all hear say at the moment

It could have been a love pact !

lets hope the women recovers ok

 

[secret squirrel]

Just a side issue.....
An mot on your car is only good until you drive it out of the garage.The get out clause for the garage who tested it is, it was fine when it left here.

If a boiler is tested and found to be safe at the time and no gas leak and your paper work is in order, at what point does your responsibilty end?

Although you may be the last professional to touch it, what if it was playing up and the customer decided to give it a go themselves?

The relevant bodies can't have it all ways can it?

I'm insterested in your views...

 

[newbie1]

very valid point secret
as far as i am concerned after i leave a property i belive to the best of my knowledge is safe i have no control or accountability for what could happen after i have left
best way is get customer to sign paperwork as happy with all work

 

[Puddle]

Just a side issue.....
An mot on your car is only good until you drive it out of the garage.The get out clause for the garage who tested it is, it was fine when it left here.

If a boiler is tested and found to be safe at the time and no gas leak and your paper work is in order, at what point does your responsibilty end?

Although you may be the last professional to touch it , what if it was playing up and the customer decided to give it a go themselves?

The relevant bodies can't have it all ways can it?

I'm insterested in your views...

Not if they find no oil in your engine as forgot to replace after oil change

Same if flue leak, if loose joint you could say customer knocked it,putting frosties back in cupboard,if hole in flue ,all corroded,then hard to say ,alright when I left this morning gov
all depends how lucky you are really
Obviously the man was not

 

[bobpape]

Does it not show one how ineffective the GSR is.

 

[Puddle]

Does it not show one how ineffective the GSR is.

At this stage it shows nothin of the kind
GSR is Effective in many areas and will be effective in getting to the bottom of this siduation if required and taking any action if needed
I always expect the GSR knockers to jump on any trajedy to make an invalid point

 

[bobpape]

Nonsence it is the HSE that carries out an investigation, they will no doubt go to the
GSR for registration information, but that is all.

HSE could not risk asking a money making organisation (Capita) to investigate.

 

[Puddle]

HSE that carries out an investigation, they will no doubt go to the
GSR for registration information, but that is all.

.

Exactly so if you have a point about any one being ineffective,it may be that it will be aimed at the HSE not GSR
The GSR may make any investigation easier and more efficient
However if there is a problem with anyone working on gas items ,it will probably be unregistered,illigal gas operatives,working in the black market,which GSR is attacking and trying to eliminate,which I am sure you agree is the correct thing to do and would assist in

 

[stevetheplumber]

do the technical details of what actually went wrong in these incidents get published anywhere?other than in legalise language i want to know in plain english what was the cause

 

[wnjswozo]

the gassafe mag ,should webpage with details of all incidents listed and in detail

 

[bobpape]

I am sure the deceased will appreciate your remarks.

As you know the odds are it was down to a RGI (6 RGIs to 1 Non RGI) or 120,000 RGIs
against 20,000 Non RGIs,

My issue is not with safety, I have no wish to see anyone die.

My issue is with RGIs who are blatantly trying to corner the market by joining GSR
OK I know there is no other way for some but I found another way,
I pulled out of gas fitting rather than stay in Corgi..but for someone who grew up with gas lighting, worked on gas for too many years.
Who in 1988 found himself responsible for the design and installation of 3000 heating systems done over a 18 month period,a £10m job where the only problems were caused by uncaring Corgi reg fitters, it was not because they did not know it was because they could not give a dam,

My issue is with Quangos and their like.
My issue is with RGIs who pontificate that non RGIs (like me) are dangerous.
My issue is with RGIs who like to call themselves Gas "Engineers",

Fortunately most RGIs are decent people who become trapped in the system,
they would endevour to carry out their work in a thoughtfull and caring way with or without the register,

At the end of the day the GSR is purely a money making scam that may help the British Economy by creating employment for pen pushers, but little else.

To end this epistle, how many of you know the difference between a gas fitter and a plumber
A plumber runs his pipes around the window,

do the technical details of what actually went wrong in these incidents get published anywhere?other than in legalise language i want to know in plain english what was the cause

Steve
Do a bit of trawling on the HSE site and get it straight from the horses mouth.

 

[wnjswozo]

i personnally think the gsr is a good idea in theory,difficult to run in practice where you can have a person who has worked 15 years plus and not be gsr and considered not competant,yet someone can go and do a course and 6 months later become gsr.
i would only let apprentised trained ge become gsr

 

[oldplumber]

Isnt it time as registered engineers we stop giving out advice about gas work on these forums to diy and unregistered folk who are obviously not competent, based on some of the questions asked. It can only lead to cock ups by those not in the know. It my save money etc but thats not the issue here is it.

ps Happ Happy New Year all

 

[the baker]

Gas Safe Register are different from CORGI in that at least they are prepared to listen to Gas Registrants who take the trouble to talk to them.

Tim

 

[migoplumber]

they havnt listened to me. i wrote them a month ago, asking them how to fill in the benchmark ticket for my mum in laws boiler which requires my registration number. i dont have one, i am registered to a firm. i did not charge her for the job, i dont wish to register the boiler through my firm. i am unable to fill in the benchmark because of this. as such the guarantee is invalid. ime afraid they are gonna have to try a lot harder to earn my respect. (sat hear swearing to myself)

 

[Puddle]

they havnt listened to me. i wrote them a month ago, asking them how to fill in the benchmark ticket for my mum in laws boiler which requires my registration number. i dont have one, i am registered to a firm. i did not charge her for the job, i dont wish to register the boiler through my firm. i am unable to fill in the benchmark because of this. as such the guarantee is invalid. ime afraid they are gonna have to try a lot harder to earn my respect. (sat hear swearing to myself)

Why do you not want to register boiler through your firm ?

 

[oldplumber]

if you arent registered as an individual and youre firm wont allow you to carryout work outside their time then surely you shouldnt do the work qualified or not. Its not that you dont know what youre doing but you will not be insured as you are working as an individual without youre own registration. I know you have not charged your mum in law, but not being insured means that if through bad luck your work caused an accident whos gonna pay up? Your firm wont cover you, youve no insurance cover and sure as hell your mums going to have to claim somewhere along the line. If the injured persons outside youre family then sure as hell they will sue you for damages, youll lose your house to pay them!!

One day everyone will have to stop winging about gas safe not responding etc.

Its simple register and insure yourself if you work outside your firms registration and all is ok otherwise you cann't go round winging about other people not even bothering to register. The rules are simple and explicit, follow them to the t and you cann 't go wrong.

Thats me off a load of xmas card lists then

 

[the baker]

they havnt listened to me. i wrote them a month ago, asking them how to fill in the benchmark ticket for my mum in laws boiler which requires my registration number. i dont have one, i am registered to a firm. i did not charge her for the job, i dont wish to register the boiler through my firm. i am unable to fill in the benchmark because of this. as such the guarantee is invalid. ime afraid they are gonna have to try a lot harder to earn my respect. (sat hear swearing to myself)

DId you actually mention that you "had" fitted a boiler, or did you say "you are considering" fitting a boiler for a relative.

Perhaps Gas Safe Register are trying to do you a good turn by not replying

 

[kirkgas]

Exactly so if you have a point about any one being ineffective,it may be that it will be aimed at the HSE not GSR
The GSR may make any investigation easier and more efficient
However if there is a problem with anyone working on gas items ,it will probably be unregistered,illigal gas operatives,working in the black market,which GSR is attacking and trying to eliminate,which I am sure you agree is the correct thing to do and would assist in

i'm not so sure, to be honest, there are a lot of registered engineers who do shoddy work, i have seen many examples of an RGI's work which TBH i would have sacked them had they worked for me, yes we all make mistakes and yes we dont know everything, but the standard of fully qualified people leaves a lot to be desired, so let us wait and see what the investigation brings before we speculate

 

[migoplumber]

hi puddle, i dont want to register the boiler through my firm because that would make me a hypocrite - i am always harping on about how wrong it is to get gas work signed off by another personm and i am not gonna change my mind now - just because it suits me.
the point i was taking up with gas safe is that firstly i have proved my competency to them and secondly i am registered with them. the only thing that is stopping me signing off the boiler personally is that they in effect want me to register twice - i imagine that must be because of the second registration fee they want me to pay.

oldplumber, yes you make a good point, the work i have done is uninsured. if i flood the place, i have to pay for it. if i blow up the house and the neighbours house i will have to pay for that too. the materialtistic costs involved are irrelevant to me. if i commit manslaughter by any means - then no amount of insurance will stop me going to jail.

baker, yes i told them i had fitted the boiler.

thanks for all your input fellas, ime just pig headed. i dont do foreigners at all, i am the manager at my firm, so getting the work signed off wouldnt be a problem if i so wished. the biggest statement here is the lack of insurance, which is totally correct, and nobody should work without it.

I just want my reply from them, and will post it when it comes !

 

[GreenArmy]

Migo, as you probably know, GasSafePR is a member on this site and i dropped him/her/them a PM a few months ago about the exact same thing, that Im registered with my firm and if i want my own GS registration do they have any plans in allowing a second registration at a reduced cost (like Corgi used to do). The answer was no and i would have to pay the same as a new business would (£420ish). They also told me that i could do work for friends and family for no gain (like you did for your mum). When i questioned them how i would register a new boiler that i may fit for a family member without a license number i had no reply.
So what do we do? Tell mum to freeze, pick up the yellow pages or just do it?

 

[Kip]

Another serious accident either today or yesterday in Shropshire, Not sure on the scale of it i do know a building was blown to peices and people are injured, burnt, sore and not sure on fatalaties, but this is not good news.

 

[GreenArmy]

BBC News - Twelve people injured in 'gas' explosion in Shrewsbury

 

[Puddle]

I can see were you are coming from Shaun and agree with you
It is the person with has passed the required courses and proved competence
and it should be the person who is registered and I bet if it was taken to a top law court ,that would be agreed
What has happened is legal gas laws have been mixed with company financial gain and protectionism
As show above,once this happens,you get all grey areas,like you can do it for friends,then every one is a friend as long as they pay cash
On the up side ,luckily I have had not much call to get the boiler manufactorers in on a covered break down,but when I have they have never looked at the bench mark book and have never heard of a boiler not repaired by manufactorer because not filled in or registered
If you get an answer,would have thought that they would just say you should put in box...employed by joe blogs and sons,who operate under reg ooooo
What we need is some one to ring up and try to register the boiler in this siduation and see what happens...probably it will be ...the computor says no......