working out of scope

[REDSAW]

so, what does this mean?.

you can dibble a little bit as long as you dont change anything.
not allowed to touch, or what?.

basically, can anyone expand on the subject ie;

you want to repair back boiler but dont have htr1 ticket so cant take off one gas union to move the fire off.

previous post earlier=, you have most other tickets but you dont have a ckr1 ticket so you cant put a bayonet fitting on a new cooker because its outside your scope?.

what is the procedure or punishment if your 'pulled' for working outside the scope and where is the line drawn?:44:

p.s i am not talking obvious here like fitting fires if you only have cooker ticket!

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

the procedure for punishment is knacker removal the line as gassafe would unhelpfully say is what you think it is

 

[gasmarc]

i suspect there is loads of people working out of scope ,This should change next year if you dont have a cpa1 you cannot work on boilers as of next year

 

[dontknowitall]

All these questions about GasSafe!!! Can you service your own boiler, can you work out of scope, can you do this, can you do that.

I blame health and safety, the trades unions, the insurance companies, the lawyers and all those people who have fluffy dice in their windscreens.

I'm glad I'm with OFTEC (and the Woolwich). I know there are less of us but at least OFTEC makes it clear to us what we can do, what we can't do, and if we're not sure they make us buy half a library and teach us where we're likely to find the answer. Also, they know the answer without having to ask someone else for an opinion.

 

[fuzzy]

you have your ccn1 and were assessed on cookers, and fires but didnt do the element.

You may have the boiler element so what use was the fires buit etc in the ACS? i was told its for relighting, if you change the boiler you need to reestablish supplies to other appliances, you need to have the skills

 

[Plumb God]

Hmmm, I had a similar issue or question a few months ago....
Called the gods in the GSR for advise and came off the phone non the wiser or maybe worse off as the dead pan chap was as helpfull as 18yr old Halfords employee!
All he basically done was quote BS numbers and paraphrases which are as clear as mud...
Dare I ask for a more detailed explaination or can he re-phrase it in his understanding, I did and the robot just continued to repeat the same BS.. :crazy:

 

[darking]

i believe that you cannot open any gas line without a ticket

 

[tonto33]

i was working with a gas fitter and we worked out of scope without realising, gas safe local rep (what ever he calls himself, jumped up little bloke) visited today as someone reported us and threated will take action and kick mate off gas safe register if we step out of line again

 

[kirkgas]

i was working with a gas fitter and we worked out of scope without realising, gas safe local rep (what ever he calls himself, jumped up little *****) visited today as someone reported us and threated will take action and kick mate off gas safe register if we step out of line again

fill us in with the rest of the details on this one,
how does a competant and qualified guy "accidently" work on an appliance he has no ticket for?
who knew you were not competant?
why did someone report you?
why is he a jumped up little bloke if all he done was advise a RGI if they work out of scope again they will get into trouble?
what action did he take after catching you working illegally this time? as those who paid for their tickets (like your mate) want action taken against those who work illegally and therefore gain an unfair advantage over those who dont break the law

 

[REDSAW]

so, like i said, if you service a baxi bermuda 552 boiler which is behind the fire and if you dont have a fire ticket does this stop you taking the fire of to service the boiler and putting the fire back on?.
i know the answer but like an opinion.

 

[tamz]

Fire and bbu are classed as one unit. You don't need a fires ticket to work on them.

 

[REDSAW]

Fire and bbu are classed as one unit. You don't need a fires ticket to work on them.

'ears ***** up' ...... interesting, which is it under then tamz, fire or boiler ticket?. expand all your knowledge on this please as i have been told other.

 

[tamz]

Covered by cen1. The fire and boiler is a combined unit. Testing of the fire is done through the boiler. There is no other way to incorrectly fit or test the fire than through the boiler so you need a boiler ticket.

Don't know how it would be if the bbu was decommissioned. Never thought of that until now.

 

[SimonJohns]

How can you replace the fire back in its opening and prove its working ok after the works.

Surely you wouldn't need to do all relevant gas fire safety checks.

I would say you have to have both.

 

[REDSAW]

now we are where i was aiming. is or int?. i need help here as i have 5 units on back load and given 3 away cause i am not too sure and not got a fire ticket.
like you say tamz, its either a fire or part of the boiler and without the boiler, is it a fire??????/.
clear as mud to me:-{ and sods law i didnt need one and now i do.

 

[kirkgas]

now we are where i was aiming. is or int?. i need help here as i have 5 units on back load and given 3 away cause i am not too sure and not got a fire ticket.
like you say tamz, its either a fire or part of the boiler and without the boiler, is it a fire??????/.
clear as mud to me:-{ and sods law i didnt need one and now i do.

listen to your uncle tam he knows everything, the fire front is not a stand alone fire and is technically classed as a "part" of the back boiler unit the same as the boiler gas valve and heat exchanger, and i can guarantee CEN1 or CENWAT is all you need to work on a bbu, although as tam says if the boiler is decommissioned that could change, i dont KNOW the answer but really have to say you will still be ok on CEN ticket as the fire front is still a "part" of the bbu and flue flow and spillage would still be done via boiler flue way, you could argue either way, but im sure if pushed it would come out that CEN would be adequate, the decommisssioned boiler doesnt really make the fire a stand alone, cause you test the fire on its own anyway as the firt part of spillage test, then you turn on the boiler (and REMEMBER to increase boiler BP to max) as we all know you do spillage test at max, and tons of guys dont change set boiler BP to max to do spillage test, thats my interpretation of the text of the test and do it, so im covered if anything does go wrong, again we could argue you dont need to but it takes me about 10 secs to turn to max and back down with the spillage test needing done anyway, so if im wasting time its mine to waste

 

[Rob Sale]

Fire and bbu are classed as one unit. You don't need a fires ticket to work on them.

We are being told you need both cenwat1 and htr1 to work on fire/bbu at college.

 

[REDSAW]

We are being told you need both cenwat1 and htr1 to work on fire/bbu at college.

??????eh!

 

[tamz]

We are being told you need both cenwat1 and htr1 to work on fire/bbu at college.

Maybe you should ask them to show you where it says that.

 

[tamz]

listen to your uncle tam he knows everything,

I don't know the price of bread:wink:

 

[Puddle]

Maybe you should ask them to show you where it says that.

probably in the accounts dept :bucktooth:

 

[SimonJohns]

Well. Here's my educated guess lol

After reading bs5871-1
It refers to the bbu as a bb and refers to the fire as a fire and quotes the fire place regulations for the installation.

For cen1 you have to answer questions on boilers ad heating water

For htr1 you have to answer questions on fires.

So IMO I think you should have to have htr1 because if you didn't. You wouldn't be able to service the bbu correctly as it is one appliance

You wouldn't e able to carry out safety checks because of the lack of knowledge on fires

Also the inability to work on the fire for e,g leak repair

No ticket. No work.

Had an arguement with my aprrenrtice about this and te fact that I was miffed cus he was fitting a cooker as a cash job. And I said he hasn't the relevant knowledge to install it and ticket to do it. Let alone the registration. And his reply was that I was over reacting and how hard can it be to fit a cooker, it's just a hose and plug it in. As you can imagine, I hit the roof!

 

[SimonJohns]

Btw. He didn't fit the cooker in the end

 

[tamz]

Most who have little experience of fire and bbu units get it wrong on on testing because they treat it as a separate fire and do their spillage checks from the front of the fire which in most cases will fail. This is because the fire is an integrated part of the boiler and spillage checks are done at the flue hood.
I stick by what i have said.

 

[Puddle]

I stick by what i have said.

I would because as you know,you are 110% right :bucktooth:

 

[darking]

no such thing as 110%,100% 100 out of 100, cant get a quart out of a pint pot

 

[quality]

110% is markup or a bit on top

 

[stevetheplumber]

back boiler and fire is counted as a boiler(bbu) and you dont need a fire ticket that was direct from BGs legal team when i queried it last winter as i was working for them

 

[darking]

110% is markup or a bit on top

silly me i thought that was called 10% markup ie 100 percent origional plus 10% markup

 

[kirkgas]

silly me i thought that was called 10% markup ie 100 percent origional plus 10% markup

a sales price can be advertised as 110% if you want it to, it simply means its 10% over the purchase price, a more important question is why is anyone only adding 10%?????????? you are deluding yourself, 20-25% of purchase price is what i was told by senior commercial managers who were experts in the contract field we were in to cover the "actual" costs of ordering/checking/uplifting/stocking/waiting on payment, and thats all before the guy in the van gets sent to fit the part

 

[quality]

ok £80 + 10 % = £88
£80 + 110% = £168
Ps I am talking out of scope because my margin is 200%

 

[quality]

So the facts are 110% does exist as explained by kirk in his sales pitch lol

 

[kirkgas]

ok £80 + 10 % = £88
£80 + 110% = £168
Ps I am talking out of scope because my margin is 200%

my 110% was of the purchase price as i said not purchase price plus 110% but looking at the figures maybe that is the way to work it out

 

[kirkgas]

So the facts are 110% does exist as explained by kirk in his sales pitch lol

it annoys me when footy managers say they want their players to give 110% effort as that is not possible, but you can increase turnover or sales by 110%

 

[quality]

It was my local independent who explained how he worked his MARGIN on supplied goods and that's how he prices his sales (been doing, it same place same supplies, over 20years).
Simply put He buys a part at X cost I pay his cost plus the % which is always more than 100% because he buys more than I do.
Some times he can be 20 30 quid more expensive but when you turn up and need a part and he has it on the shelf its worth that 110%