wiped lead joint

[plumdum]

Hi, fixing a copper pipe to lead pipe involves a 'wiped joint'.
But how do you do a wiped joint properly?
thanks.

 

[REDSAW]

you wipe out a lead-lok from the bag.

 

[secret squirrel]

You shouldn't do wiped joints its against the water regs. I don't carry leadloks because there a bit expensive and I don't use them that often. They do come in different sizes because of the weight of the lead.

What you need to do is get the one that is the closest fit and then file the lead down (evenly) for the lead lock to fit! follow the instructions...

 

[WHPES]

You are quite OK to do wiped lead joints for non-drinking water applications.

Forget leadloks - try the new Philmac universal coupling - far easier.

The following is a simplified description of joining lead to copper. It is somewhat of a skill which requires practice, and in reality is only done today in the chemical industry.

WIPED LEAD JOINT -

Clean inside the lead pipe and open up the end of the bore so it fits neatly over the 15mm copper pipe. Clean again with wire brush so it is bright.

Clean the outside of the copper pipe and apply flux (traditional paste flux) to both the inside of the lead pipe and the outside of the copper pipe.

Knock the copper pipe into the lead (the copper end needs to be turned over around the edge

Heat the whole area evenly then concentrate more on the copper, applying solder (leaded, lower melting point solder) to the joint.

Make sure the joint is full of solder and as much as it will take.

Clean off with wire wool.

 

[Puddle]

You are quite OK to do wiped lead joints for non-drinking water applications.

Forget leadloks - try the new Philmac universal coupling - far easier.

The following is a simplified description of joining lead to copper. It is somewhat of a skill which requires practice, and in reality is only done today in the chemical industry.

WIPED LEAD JOINT -

Clean inside the lead pipe and open up the end of the bore so it fits neatly over the 15mm copper pipe. Clean again with wire brush so it is bright.

Clean the outside of the copper pipe and apply flux (traditional paste flux) to both the inside of the lead pipe and the outside of the copper pipe.

Knock the copper pipe into the lead (the copper end needs to be turned over around the edge

Heat the whole area evenly then concentrate more on the copper, applying solder (leaded, lower melting point solder) to the joint.

Make sure the joint is full of solder and as much as it will take.

Clean off with wire wool.

Think maybe tin copper pipe end first before placing in lead pipe,just flux end and heat and cover in solder,then when doing joint in lead, less heat required

Then when finished wipe with wet oily,dirty rag to cool joint down,it makes joint look like it was done before regs changed........ooooh.....only kidding

 

[WHPES]

I remember seeing my grandpa show me how to make a proper wiped joint of lead to lead using a parrafin torch and moleskin but it was so long ago I can't really remember how it was done. Lead to copper is relatively simple.

 

[midge]

I learnt wiped joints during my City & Guilds apprenticeship in the early '70s

The key is to use Frys plumbing solder which stays 'plastic' and can be wiped with a moleskin cloth well impregnated with tallow.

Mind you, I don't know where or if you can get such things now. BTW, for any animal lovers reading, it isn't made from moles, just thick soft cotton cloth folded over enough times so you don't burn your hand

 

[stevetheplumber]

Hi, fixing a copper pipe to lead pipe involves a 'wiped joint'.
But how do you do a wiped joint properly?
thanks.

no one has even mentioned cardwire and black or a turnpin or a shave hook
cant belive how fast its all changed i probally had to do a wiped joint at least once a week your wiring kit was always with you
on reflection its not that fast 35years

 

[WHPES]

Few plumbers posess those items now. I have a set of turnpins and a shave hook I inherited from my grandpa.

 

[freelander100]

use a lead lock, dead easy. compression fitting.

when i was training in 81, i did a wipe joint with lead in a vice. put on to much heat and all the grade d solder fell off and landed in my hand, that hurt.

 

[oilman]

I thought wiped lead joints were totally banned. surely lead wasn't used in heating circuits was it?

 

[WHPES]

The regulations state that no new lead may be introduced into potable water systems.

Therefore there is nothing to stop you putting one into a non-potable application if you really wanted to.

Never come across it in heating circuits but you may come across it in domestic hot water systems which are considered non-potable.

 

[oilman]

ok good answer

 

[stevetheplumber]

The regulations state that no new lead may be introduced into potable water systems.

Therefore there is nothing to stop you putting one into a non-potable application if you really wanted to.

Never come across it in heating circuits but you may come across it in domestic hot water systems which are considered non-potable.

ive occasionally wiped in a bit of copper when changing a tank and no leadlocks in the van ive got no wiping kit any more but can get a reasonable finish with a bit of cardboard for a cloth and normal solder funny how a skill once learnt is never lost shame theres noi skills left in normal polumbing mow
especially handy when the overflow is lead and difficult to get a new one out better than the usual plastic poked down the lead and a bit of silicon ive come across

 

[Guest123]

I still use a shave hook regularly for lead burning lead sheet. Going back even further, I remember bolt soldering joints at college in the early 80's.
I use a Philmac for lead pipes and on ocassion, I've even hammered one onto live mains!

 

[donald1]

You are quite OK to do wiped lead joints for non-drinking water applications.

Forget leadloks - try the new Philmac universal coupling - far easier.

The following is a simplified description of joining lead to copper. It is somewhat of a skill which requires practice, and in reality is only done today in the chemical industry.

WIPED LEAD JOINT -

Clean inside the lead pipe and open up the end of the bore so it fits neatly over the 15mm copper pipe. Clean again with wire brush so it is bright.

Clean the outside of the copper pipe and apply flux (traditional paste flux) to both the inside of the lead pipe and the outside of the copper pipe.

Knock the copper pipe into the lead (the copper end needs to be turned over around the edge

Heat the whole area evenly then concentrate more on the copper, applying solder (leaded, lower melting point solder) to the joint.

Make sure the joint is full of solder and as much as it will take.

Clean off with wire wool.

i think whpes u have told us more how to do it ...i m very thankful to u...

 

[kirkgas]

I still use a shave hook regularly for lead burning lead sheet. Going back even further, I remember bolt soldering joints at college in the early 80's.
I use a Philmac for lead pipes and on ocassion, I've even hammered one onto live mains!

we found a box of brand new, unused solder bolts in the college store a few weeks ago

 

[JBPLUMBING]

Customer has a wiped lead to copper joint on incoming main. Its leaking a little.
Is it possible to fix these without taking the joint apart and re doing it?
The lead is a bend coming out the wall so a bit tight to get a lead lock on (plus its on show).
Thanks

 

[parkesy_plumb]

When ever i work with lead i always cut it back as far as it can go and put a philmac adaptor on. You can get these from plumbcentre but you have to purchase separately the 15 or 22 copper adaptor . If youre unsure of the size snip a bit off and take it with you to the merchants and check the fitting will decrease in size to form a good seal. Do the job right or dont do it at all

 

[JBPLUMBING]

When ever i work with lead i always cut it back as far as it can go and put a philmac adaptor on. You can get these from plumbcentre but you have to purchase separately the 15 or 22 copper adaptor . If youre unsure of the size snip a bit off and take it with you to the merchants and check the fitting will decrease in size to form a good seal. Do the job right or dont do it at all

Thanks for the advice Parkesy. Unfortunately the pipe is on show in the cloakroom so I dont want to put a plastic fitting on there really.

I wondered if it was possible to add some leaded solder to the joint in the same way you can add solder to a soldered joint .
Also is it legal to repair one of these as you would (if the repir is possible) be adding lead to a potable fitting? I'm guessing not.

 

[parkesy_plumb]

you would only be adding lead to a lead fitting if you were to wipe it .. personally if it was me i would explain to the customer that you will need to put an adaptor on just to cover your own bum if it were to bust later down line. The philmac are pretty tidy looking things like and black.

 

[oilman]

thanks for the advice parkesy. Unfortunately the pipe is on show in the cloakroom so i dont want to put a plastic fitting on there really.

I wondered if it was possible to add some leaded solder to the joint in the same way you can add solder to a soldered joint .
Also is it legal to repair one of these as you would (if the repir is possible) be adding lead to a potable fitting? I'm guessing not.

yes it is illegal swept joints we're made illegal years ago

 

[fonta]

Thanks for the advice Parkesy. Unfortunately the pipe is on show in the cloakroom so I dont want to put a plastic fitting on there really.

I wondered if it was possible to add some leaded solder to the joint in the same way you can add solder to a soldered joint .
Also is it legal to repair one of these as you would (if the repir is possible) be adding lead to a potable fitting? I'm guessing not.

Hi,

I work in Spain and soldering lead is everyday task. You can solder/repair without replacing but you have to make sure the pipe is empty, otherwise the material you add (tin) doesn't melt. This video is the most instructive https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P-F3cy5O_zk. . It's in spanish but it's straight forward. Important: pipes empty, clean and observe the use of the white stuff (paraffin). You must not be afraid to apply heat. The lead does't melt as fast as tin. Work progressively and perhaps practice tin with copper to get point of melting right and avoid frustration. One more thing, to repair, ie solder over, it's more difficult than replacing. The work position is important and when you replace you can bend the lead wherever but when you repair you are stuck where the pipe is located. Good luck.

 

[JBPLUMBING]

In theory, is it possible to repair a lead to copper joint by heating and adding more solder?
I ask out of curiousity, I can find lots of info on making a wiped joint (thanks Fonta for the vid!) but non on repairing.

 

[fonta]

In theory, is it possible to repair a lead to copper joint by heating and adding more solder?
I ask out of curiousity, I can find lots of info on making a wiped joint (thanks Fonta for the vid!) but non on repairing.

Repairing is the same process. Repairing the second half of the joint. The solder or lead leak to repair must be cleaned (soft wire etc), file it, and then heat it and apply paraffin. The proceed to apply the tin slowly maintaining the heat. Observe in the vid the end process, apply heat to make the solder soft (almost liquid) thus closing any small hole. The last part is not done by chance. And yes the cloth (some people use newspaper) must be soaked with drips of paraffin and must be folded neatly (otherwise it wipes the tin on the floor). If you don't have practice use gloves, and don't breath to much tin vapours (open windows).

 

[turnpin]

In theory, is it possible to repair a lead to copper joint by heating and adding more solder?
I ask out of curiousity, I can find lots of info on making a wiped joint (thanks Fonta for the vid!) but non on repairing.

Yes it can be done but you need an experienced plumber to show you ...do not try this yourself as you could make it a whole lot worse....regards Turnpin:66: