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I thought you had to have this by April, to install boilers, flueless fires etc because that is the it's going.

you are quoting 2 different types of appliance, you do not need an analyser to fit EVERY boiler, i know this for a fact, i BELIEVE you do need an analyser to fit flueless gas fires (any i have seen require you to check ratio on commissioning, someone may advice of some that dont require it)
 
Looking back, most of the boilers i install DONT require a FGA. I just do it as a matter of course. Sorry got confused between installation instructions/ servicing & benchmark.


see, dont get confused by what you must do and what you tell us you do, haha
 
do you actually know anyone who has access to financial records of any training centres? who says they are making money? we charge ÂŁ40 (+ÂŁ45 cert fee) plus VAT for CPA assessment (ok we assess 3 or 4 at a time for a 1.5hr assessment, out of the ÂŁ40 i print the training notes and exam papers, wages and running costs, it aint buying me my jag this year

Oh no, does this mean you are traveling around in last years Jag?
I'm disappointed Kirk :D
 
Nothing to add here as Kirk fancied nothing on the telly and answered it all.

Oh 1 thing i can add. Although it is not a requirement to hold and use a FGA for some types of work they are pushing to change the GSIUR to make it compulsory. (see Decembers gas engineer or installer mag or whatever one it was in) so everyone will have to splash out in the next year or 2.
 
When I got made redundant and went self employed I decided that there were 4 essential things that I needed to invest in. Gas Safe Registration, Public Liability insurance, further training and a FGA. I could have just taken out some public liability and gone out plumbing but I decided to invest in the tools and equipment that enable me to earn better money.

You need to look at the ongoing costs of training, equipment maintenance etc. and set your prices at a level that covers these costs and gives you a decent wage.

I've stood in merchants chatting to people about prices and I am charging twice what some local fitters are charging. I've been told that I'll never get any work at those rates when I've been on my way out to do a job at precisely those rates. I don't want to work for people that want a cheap job done, I want to work for people that want a decent job done and are willing to pay a decent rate for it. Too many people in this industry undersell themselves.
 
Nothing to add here as Kirk fancied nothing on the telly and answered it all.

Oh 1 thing i can add. Although it is not a requirement to hold and use a FGA for some types of work they are pushing to change the GSIUR to make it compulsory. (see Decembers gas engineer or installer mag or whatever one it was in) so everyone will have to splash out in the next year or 2.

on the numbers game GSR have worked out that most people will need to do their CCN1 within the next couple of yrs and will get CPA1 included in it so the pain could be minimal
 
why have a acs element on fgas. when there is no requirment to own a calibrated analayser to be on the gas safe register


soon it will be built into the core so wont be an additional element. it needs to be at the moment because you need a fga for certain boilers and fires
 
on the numbers game GSR have worked out that most people will need to do their CCN1 within the next couple of yrs and will get CPA1 included in it so the pain could be minimal


but they need it now?
 
i analyse every new boiler i fit and commission but i have not come across a boiler in recent memory that requires the use of an analyser on commissioning in its instructions?

please name some?
Remaha
Viessman
The new Worcester Bosch (model name escapes me)
Plus a few others!
 
wish it was that cheap in london kirk ÂŁ150plus dreaded here and ive been told its a complete waste of a morning if you already know where the on of switch is
worst is my tickets are all up early next year so ill never get in synch
 
wish it was that cheap in london kirk ÂŁ150plus dreaded here and ive been told its a complete waste of a morning if you already know where the on of switch is
worst is my tickets are all up early next year so ill never get in synch

you will be in sync cause after this april cpa will be in with ccn so in effect you are only paying for 1 yrs worth of cpa rather than 5 (just to cheer you up haha)
 
wish it was that cheap in london kirk ÂŁ150plus dreaded here and ive been told its a complete waste of a morning if you already know where the on of switch is
worst is my tickets are all up early next year so ill never get in synch

my honest opinion of cpa is that if you do know what you are doing you wont get anything from the assessment, but then again you arent meant to get anything from an assessment its all about proving you do know what you are doing, but as for the training, we do basic cpa training which is ideal for those who know nothing about analysers, (and there are many who dont,) and im not having a go at those who dont need an analyser, but i am having a go at those who are fitting boilers that need an analyser and some of these guys dont know what they are doing and have been installing HE's for yrs, im amazed at those who do cpa training as i have posted before, i dont think you get much from it if you are competant, so when people phone to book it i always ask if they are sure they need it, cause if they are using an analyser daily then at its basic level its plug and play, take a reading and cross reference MI os action level table in BS doc, is it above action level, what are you going to do about it, is it under action level then its fine, assessment over gies yer dosh and get oot haha, i didnt write the assessment so i can slag it, and TBH in its own way it is enough cause using an analyser is all about confirm all is well or not, dealing with the or not is another issue and cpa training doesnt go deep enough, but loads of guys are not interested in looking at a deeper level 3 day course they want to do as little as required to comply with the law and there is nothing wrong with that, we all know of kevins course and those who have done it are the very few who want to step up a level, i keep meaning to book it but something keeps putting it off and i genuinely want to do it to learn to a higher level, so if i cant be bothered actually booking it and i really wnat to then there is no chance of most installers taking 3 days off work to travel and pay for the privelidge of learning something they dont need to do their job.
 
Good post there kirk I agree with
ps I did my cpa1 with guys that did not really understand the Fga readings hence they were there all day and had some training
 
I was still employed when I redid my CCN1 and the company also booked us in for CPA1 and training. I strongly disagreed with some aspects of the training as they discussed fumes investigation and gave the impression that gaining a CPA1 would give competence in this area. No mention was made of when an installer shouldn't carry out a fumes investigation and I could just see installers tramping in to a carbon monoxide incident and destroying evidence.

The training was given in a morning and if you are going to understand fumes investigation properly that is nowhere near enough time. I did C&G 6043 Carbon Monoxide Incident management and Investigation at BG Leeds and that was a very intensive 5 day course.
 
I was still employed when I redid my CCN1 and the company also booked us in for CPA1 and training. I strongly disagreed with some aspects of the training as they discussed fumes investigation and gave the impression that gaining a CPA1 would give competence in this area. No mention was made of when an installer shouldn't carry out a fumes investigation and I could just see installers tramping in to a carbon monoxide incident and destroying evidence.

The training was given in a morning and if you are going to understand fumes investigation properly that is nowhere near enough time. I did C&G 6043 Carbon Monoxide Incident management and Investigation at BG Leeds and that was a very intensive 5 day course.

it would appear that the training you got wasnt very good if they gave the impression you could do fiumes investigation, i only use the bpec notes which make it VERY clear that fumes investigation is a very different subject and specifically states CPA asssessment is NOT designed for fumes investigation
our cpa training is done over a morning but is specific to understanding what the assessment is, not fumes investigation
 
The only notes we got was a single sheet with the ratios for various appliances. Didn't make a great deal of odds because you couldn't have failed if you wanted to as there was so much hand holding.
 
Yeah, the focus seems to be ratios only.

BTW, Mike, I'm jealous of the course you did in Leeds. I so want to do that one.
 
Yeah, the focus seems to be ratios only.

BTW, Mike, I'm jealous of the course you did in Leeds. I so want to do that one.


It was an incredibly interesting course. When you see how easy it is to get a lethal build up of CO it makes you much more aware of the safety aspects of the job. It's probably also one of the most dangerous courses that a gas engineer can go on. There is no way to simulate the build up of CO so it is all done with live scenarios. You have to check an appliance with an analyser to work out where the CO is emerging from the appliance. All the time CO is spilling into the room you are in. You have an instructor with you and if you take too long to discover where the CO is spilling from the instructor will halt the training scenario/assessment evacuate the training module, isolate the gas and turn on the giant extract fans to clear the air.

The scenario which shocked me the most was the one with the grill. The scenario was set up as a kitchen containing a cooker with eye level grill. The injector on the grill was linted up and a plate placed on the vent on top of the grill. This scenario produced enough CO to be lethal in less than ten minutes.

I've never used the course in anger but wanted the qualification as I was doing quality inspections and safety checks on other peoples work and I wanted to take my qualifications one step up from the normal.
 
No I was a partner in the family business and we were doing a lot of work for housing associations and I was dealing with quality inspections for them as they didn't have any one gas qualified on their direct staff. All the guys on the course with me were either BG or Corgi inspectors.
 
I think after I did the course I was one of only 3 in the country not employed by BG or Corgi.
 
Remaha
Viessman
The new Worcester Bosch (model name escapes me)
Plus a few others!

cool, so about 5% of the current domestic market then. So if you dont fit one of these boilers and you only install and not service then you in theroy do not need an analyser.
 
cool, so about 5% of the current domestic market then. So if you dont fit one of these boilers and you only install and not service then you in theroy do not need an analyser.

Not at the moment but they are planning on changing the GSIUR regs to make them compulsory.
 
Not at the moment but they are planning on changing the GSIUR regs to make them compulsory.


i think the best they could do was make it mandatory to have access to an analyser when you need it (although suppose thats what it is now) it will be restrictive practice to make a kitchen fitter use his hard earned to buy something he clearly doesnt need to fit hobs, and TBH a guy who fits OF fires could argue and win every time that an analyser isnt needed to confirm the safety of the appliance, as us oldies have been making informed technical decisions on the safety of these appliance for (what seems like) hundreds of years and havent killed anyone yet
 
I know that Kirk but some gov dept has got a bee in their bunnet for reducing carbon monoxide incidents even further and they think this is the way to do it. Compulsory servicing tied in through home insurers would do more to help that.
 
i dont know how low they think they can get the death by co figures think solid fuel kills more than gas what they should do is outlaw open flued apliances bigger than a normal cooker and make range cookers interlock with extract
and make benchmark compulsory no bench mark no gas
 
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I think the figures for fires are worse than boilers. I think Cait put up a link a wee while back but i've lost it.
 
The only notes we got was a single sheet with the ratios for various appliances. Didn't make a great deal of odds because you couldn't have failed if you wanted to as there was so much hand holding.




if you want some more notes send me a PM with an email address
 
i dont know how low they think they can get the death by co figures think solid fuel kills more than gas what they should do is outlaw open flued apliances bigger than a normal cooker and make range cookers interlock with extract
and make benchmark compulsory no bench mark no gas

atleast with solid fuel they now insist on you fitting a co alarm, maybe a good idea to insist the same with gas, maybe even make manufactures include them in the box??
 
I thought the solid fuel CO alarms are for new appliances only. I don't believe anything covers existing stock.
 
I thought the solid fuel CO alarms are for new appliances only. I don't believe anything covers existing stock.

that what i am saying, if its good enough for solid fuel then why not gas?
 
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