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Truman

I've had a couple of quotes now for a new CH system, and I thought the clean/cleanse/flush stage (basically, getting all the magnetite/sludge out of the system) would be done BEFORE the new boiler and rads get fitted. However, both guys have said they normally do it AFTER the new boiler and rads have been fitted, relying solely on the magnacleanse magnet to attract all the crud on your new system. The only explanation I was given is that when fitting the new pipework you get flux in the system so they prefer to clean it all out at the end.

This seems crazy to me. Surely you want all the crud out of the system BEFORE fitting a new bolier and rads, or else any sludge is going to have to make its way through all the new rads and pipework and possibly boiler before it hits the magnacleanse magnet. Even if the magnacleanse is fitted on the return to the boiler, it's still not going to get all the crud out is it. Why risk clogging things up in this way? What am I missing here?
 
Speaking from experience the magnacleanse is absolutely superb at removing muck from the system. I believe that the manufacturer ADEY will also confirm this as a satisfactory cleaning method in the event that the pump on the previous heating system has died
 
I dont own a powerflush but when installing a new boiler etc i always thouroughly flush b4 and after and depending what comes out on the first flush ie colour of water will determine if i connect mains cw if gravity syst or fill n flush again if pressurised,, if i know the system is manky then il put in a tub of x800 couple weeks b4 i do job,
 
Are they only using a Magnacleanse and not a powerflush on a boiler swap? How old is your system?

I have always done it before the new boiler goes on using the old boiler for heat and attached my Magnacleanse inline with PF.

I have heard of ppl isolating boiler and flushing out system after new boiler fitted, but then if it's a combi you've either got to flush from radiator or cut in tees. Don't make sense to me?
 
Both would use a Magnacleanse only and not a powerflush. However this generally relies on the customer wanting a magnaclean fitting as part of the job, which I don't.

System approx 25 years old. Open vented at the min and the system water is a bit on the black side (was flushed out a couple of years ago, and fernox F1 added). I just want all the crud out of my current system, the new system fitting and inhibitor put in. I'm getting all new rads as well. I just cant see logic in fitting all the new bits but only cleaning at the end, no matter how good a magnacleanse is.
 
I used to give customers the option of magnaclean now i fit them as standard on boiler upgrade or heating upgrade,
 
Fair play, I'm just saying I don't want one fitting. Perhaps I shouldnt have mentioned that as I dont want this thread to turn into whether I should or shouldnt fit a magnaclean.

I'm just talking about the best way to clean a system when the system is being upgraded. Why risk sludge going through your brand new system when it could mostly be cleaned out beforehand?
 
If your geting al new rads whats the worry if it gets flushed before or after? Most of it will be gone. Have a fiilter installed with a hot an cold flush once the install is complete. Installer doesnt want to waste half a day flushing before he has to remove rads
 
Firstly you have to understand what the customer wants and is willing to pay for and the condition of the existing system that is to be connected to the new appliance.

If you are connecting a new boiler to an old system then you really want to clean the old system before fitting the new appliance. This is best done with a powerflush machine if the systems condition is poor. If the system is new or almost all new then using the existing boiler is normally fine unless the part of the old system left connected is full of corrosion.

A magnacleanse is ok, it wont remove what a powerflush machine will, but you dont always need a machine on a fairly clean system with alittle magnetic debris in the rads.


i think you seem to understand things quite well so explain to your engineer that you are willing to pay for the extra 3/4 to 1 days labour for a proper flush to be done. The problem most engineers have is convincing a customer that the cost of the powerflush is worth it, its nice to have a customer wanting whats best and not just whats cheapest.
 
As it happens AW Heating, I did ask the last guy about a powerflush. He said he doesnt really do it anymore as it takes a lot of time and he gets good results with the magnacleanse (fitted after the new system is in place). You may be right that although he said its the time that puts him off, it's more the fact the customer isn't willing to pay for that time. However, even though I brought it up, he still didn't offer me the option.

I hate to go off topic, but aren't powerflushes risky on older pipework? This more gentle magnacleanse seems to be all the rage, which i'd be happy with, but only before the new systems fitted!
 
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Just tell them you want it flushed before hand as well as after (you have to do after to remove all the flux solder etc) and that you are willing to pay the extra.

If possible I like to heat system up with cleaner in and fully drain system which would remove a fair amount of sludge then fill up and flush out again with a magnaclean/ filter connected you will be surprised at the amount of much it collects even in a short time. As long as it is fitted on the return it will stop most of the muck going through the boiler.

Me personally I think you should have a filter installed on the system the pros out way the cons every time and new boilers have smaller waterways in them so over the years the filter may save you a new heat exchanger.
 
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As it happens AW Heating, I did ask the last guy about a powerflush. He said he doesnt really do it anymore as it takes a lot of time and he gets good results with the magnacleanse (fitted after the new system is in place). You may be right that although he said its the time that puts him off, it's more the fact the customer isn't willing to pay for that time. However, even though I brought it up, he still didn't offer me the option.

I hate to go off topic, but aren't powerflushes risky on older pipework? This more gentle magnacleanse seems to be all the rage, which i'd be happy with, but only before the new systems fitted!

to me, your the customer. If you ask and are willing to pay for a power flush you get one. Your always right............ most of the time ;)

Powerflush machines can show up weakness in systems but This is normally a weakness that will fail in the near future anyway. If you have part of the system being held together by rust it will fail, its normally better for it to fail when theres a heating engineer next to it.

A magnacleanse will only remove magnetic debris on its own relying on the system pump for flow rate. They are ok but work even better when connected to a PF machine.
 
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