Wanting to train as a plumber

[artist]

Hi all

Can anyone give me some advice on training options please.

I am 41 years old and have been self employed as a designer for the past 10 years but seem to spend most of my time DIY-ing around our new house! Have always been interested and involved in doing as much work around the house as possible and really enjoy it. Am now thinking of becoming a plumber full time and am just starting to make enquiries into training options. I am attracted to the fast track option but am reading some negative reviews of these courses. Also I am wondering if I have to be employed by a plumber before I can qualify or can I be assessed on a SElf Employed basis for my NVQ? Any help appreciated. Oh I am based in the Scottish Borders if that is relevant.

Thanks

 

[Kings]

To be a self employed plumber you don't need any formal qualifications unless you work with unvented systems, gas or electrics etc.
You do need to follow the regs though as ignorance is not a defence.

If I were you then I would obtain some books and start studying, R. D. Treloar writes some great books, then use fast track type courses to learn practical skills or maybe adult college courses.

By far the best way would be to link up with a Plumber but that's probably not going to happen and definitely won't be cost effective for you.

Another way is to start up small once you have studied for a while, only do small part time repairs, tap replacements etc and see how you go.

 

[HPPH]

JTL Heinnman books are great too - Highly recommend level 2 ( Amazon/waterstones ) - Also definitely these forums for job specific questions

 

[copperman999]

Take a look at Home I've used some of their stuff & its the business!

 

[david williams]

lots of newly fast track plumbers looking for jobs that do not exist.enrol a t night school if you are still working,find a local plumber to work with part time,but if you spend a lot of money on fast track plumbing course get them to prove there are 30,000 plumbing jobs going begging.when we come out of this reccesion there will be new jobs for plumbers,but a lot of the guys doing fast track are finding it hard to find work as most companies ask for 4 to 5 years post training experience

 

[Bernie2]

The problem is, its usually new house building that drags the Construction industry out of recession.
And that work relies on speed. Its like working on a production line.

The Plumbing, people are mostly referring too as Plumbing, is usually self employed work, in which you are thought to be able to please yourself.

But self employed work, as most will probably tell you, is usually won on price and it can take years to build a client base.

Many people link to big firms either as sub contractors or small contract workers.
That work again is probably won on price.

The silly idea of "best value" just usually means you have to offer more for the same price than others.
So "best value" would probably be a two for one offer.
If your the installer, imagine installing two bathrooms for the price of one and you get the idea of "best value", okay you may be a little bit dearer than others on your price.
But if you charge £300 for two bathrooms instead of £200 for one, you've got to make £100 from somewhere.

That may mean having to put the lads on tight bonuses or if self employed be happy at breaking even or less, both ways perhaps risk bad work, in an effort to make it pay a reasonable wage or profit. It depends on margins.

The customer may also find "best value" equals poorest standard. So nobody wins. Its tough out there guys!

 

[andrewcplatt]

Bernie,you are a wise man,was going to say "old" but hey,id had better not.Youre comments on this site are from a man who knows the business inside out.Just to say i read all youre replies and comments.Thanks for ALL youre wise comments,advice as your years of experience in plumbing shines through.

 

[copperman999]

Hi Artist,
Some colleges will tell you that you have to be employed to get an NVQ - not true you have "to be working in the industry" otherwise a self-employed person could never get qualified. Be careful about short workshop based C&G 6129 courses. They are expensive and employers want people with NVQ.
It's eaasier to get a C&G 6088 NVQ than a Plumbing NVQ (C&G 6089) because there isn't a 5 year rule that is designed to keep peole out! If you are good at DIY then, as you are pretty remote from a city, perhaps a distance learning course will give you enough knowledge to get started doing straightforward jobs...

 

[david williams]

its not designed to to keep people out,it is to make shure people have time to learn properly.

 

[craig1]

Hi there i am intrested in be coming a plumber i have a friend who hi can get on hands experienc with i live in durham has any one any ideas what course will sute me best learn at home

 

[Deleted member 25704]

Hi there i am intrested in be coming a plumber i have a friend who hi can get on hands experienc with i live in durham has any one any ideas what course will sute me best learn at home

Join a professional body like Chartered Institute of Plumbing and Heating Engineering, find the local 'free' training through branch events, and do the rest yourself without paying out for a course. Its all free and most of it is on the internet, so don't bother with the theory...its not worth the paper its written on. Your hands on experience is all that matters, if you are disposed to researching things yourself.

Junior membership with CIPHE is less than £20 (I think).

 

[copperman999]

Hi, I suggest you take a look at www.learnplumbing.co.uk ...:1:

 

[david williams]

how do you gain membership of ciphe with no formal qualifications,as for training companies still advertising earn 40k plus after 12 weeks training!! the average wage for a qualified plumber is between 16k to 25k,and most employers want proof of at least 5 years post training experience.how can you advise clients about installations and problems if you have no idea of the theory behind the work.

 

[fuzzy]

Join a professional body like Chartered Institute of Plumbing and Heating Engineering, find the local 'free' training through branch events, and do the rest yourself without paying out for a course. Its all free and most of it is on the internet, so don't bother with the theory...its not worth the paper its written on. Your hands on experience is all that matters, if you are disposed to researching things yourself.

Junior membership with CIPHE is less than £20 (I think).

how much training is involved in this 'free' training. Do you really think the internet is the best place to learn plumbing?
Hands on is all you need? try telling that to a new employer who wants proof or sites asking for trade cards that you cannot get without quals

 

[Deleted member 25704]

how much training is involved in this 'free' training. Do you really think the internet is the best place to learn plumbing?
Hands on is all you need? try telling that to a new employer who wants proof or sites asking for trade cards that you cannot get without quals

Fuzzy, i accept your point on employers wanting to see qualifications. However, many of the employers that I speak with, have lost faith in qualifications and often give trainees a trial period to prove their attitude rather than the skill they profess through qualifications.

The point I was trying to make about research, and free training is that 'formalised' theoretical training, in simulated environments has little value in terms of 'knowledge transfer'. Fair enough, you might be able to remember the boiling point of water at 3 bar, or the temperature of water at maximum density, but...

Know-how is learned through transactional processes, which often require participation in a community of practice. To make an assumption that such processes can be fostered in colleges or simulated environments, without the need for 'meaningful events' to furnish memory, would negate important aspects of psychological learning in relation to social learning in the real world. Not all learning is purely 'cognitive', there are social dimensions to learning which have been largely ignored; while training centres churn out their students who can solder and thread pipe as qualification graduates, employers find they can't lift a carpet without damaging it.

Learning also requires 'attention', which is not always easy in classroom situations or overcrowded workshops. Those who take on board learning themselves, will seek out the most valuable communities of practice - I have suggested one as CIPHE; they do a junior or trainee membership and their technical evenings are welcome to non-members. Attending such events would put a trainee in contact with those plumbers who have an interest in professional matters and knowledge sharing.

The commodification and marketisation of education has changed common sense notions...people say "I want to learn plumbing, what is the best course" - just ten years ago, this would have been "I want to learn plumbing, so I need to find an apprenticeship".

 

[fuzzy]

Fuzzy, i accept your point on employers wanting to see qualifications. However, many of the employers that I speak with, have lost faith in qualifications and often give trainees a trial period to prove their attitude rather than the skill they profess through qualifications.

The point I was trying to make about research, and free training is that 'formalised' theoretical training, in simulated environments has little value in terms of 'knowledge transfer'. Fair enough, you might be able to remember the boiling point of water at 3 bar, or the temperature of water at maximum density, but...

Know-how is learned through transactional processes, which often require participation in a community of practice. To make an assumption that such processes can be fostered in colleges or simulated environments, without the need for 'meaningful events' to furnish memory, would negate important aspects of psychological learning in relation to social learning in the real world. Not all learning is purely 'cognitive', there are social dimensions to learning which have been largely ignored; while training centres churn out their students who can solder and thread pipe as qualification graduates, employers find they can't lift a carpet without damaging it.

Learning also requires 'attention', which is not always easy in classroom situations or overcrowded workshops. Those who take on board learning themselves, will seek out the most valuable communities of practice - I have suggested one as CIPHE; they do a junior or trainee membership and their technical evenings are welcome to non-members. Attending such events would put a trainee in contact with those plumbers who have an interest in professional matters and knowledge sharing.

The commodification and marketisation of education has changed common sense notions...people say "I want to learn plumbing, what is the best course" - just ten years ago, this would have been "I want to learn plumbing, so I need to find an apprenticeship".

i was asked by a teacher when doing my BTECs, what is more important the qual or experience? The answer we came to was both. Both have a part to play, just becasue one of them is important does not mean the other isnt and vice versa.

The boiling point of water at 3bar may very well be useful when identifying a fault with an unvented cylinder. It will not give you better copper bending skills, but what are we training? copper tube or speed fit installers or educated and enriched trades people?

 

[Deleted member 25704]

Fuzzy

I agree that both theory and practice are important, but at different stages of an apprenticeship and for different contexts and responsibilities. Can we 'really' understand something theoretically without practise first? There is no conclusive answer to this question, but we can make observations about our own apprentices' performance and infer knowledge - if they can do something then they have know-how. At what stage of our occupational performance, do abstract or theoretical understandings make a difference? They probably don't for many operatives at trade level in their career - its nice to know what principles underpin a process, but reliance on this type of knowledge is usually associated with graduate professions, not installers. Knowledge can be inferred from performance, we can see if someone is competent to do a job - its not really necessary to know whether they understand the principles - how many plumbers actually do, and it does not stop them - again, the myth of theory - blame the Greeks..

And the enlightenment thinkers of the 18th century who brought about the split between theory and practice.

I am suggesting thinking of a 'practice of theory' which means there is no seperation, just practice. When theory is learned, there is often much more work required to transform this into meaningful understanding - this is why teachers exist, to mediate and help students make sense of theory in light of their practise. To teach and assess them seperately will fail to help students make the meaningful connections that are required of understanding - and this is what goes on.

 

[fuzzy]

Sounds like you’re an advocate for trained monkeys

I have heard all the anecdotal evidence from past years; however, many trades were more practical back then than they are now.

Take brickwork as one example, this has hardly changed from decades/centuries ago and education is very vocational as before

However plumbing, the systems used have changed immensely. The early systems were simple pipes and open vented systems. Now we have complex and sophisticated pipe work arrangements. Ignorance is a key failing in many dangerous or incorrectly installed systems. This is purely down to their understanding of the system. Practice will not address this in the short term if at all. If bending and fitting pipe will help you understand an unvented system I would like to see it. If practice leading to knowledge really exists to the extent you claim then why are there any academic teachings?

I claim that now more than ever theory training in sophisticated plumbing and gas is more essential than ever. It is so important to understand key principles as without this peoples ignorance is dangerous and leads to gas explosions and unvented cylinders being blown up. I’ve seen pressure reducing valves on the hot water outlet by highly skilled trades people, their skills didn’t help them there!

I am very proud to have my education, I worked hard for it and I know many others have, I don’t want poor views of education discrediting all the good it does

 

[quality]

Sounds interesting this education thing
If I may ask a question for Fuzzy are you a teacher or tutor or lecturer or trainer or assessor or tradesman or ??
Its your interesting remarks that spurn my query

 

[fuzzy]

Sounds interesting this education thing
If I may ask a question for Fuzzy are you a teacher or tutor or lecturer or trainer or assessor or tradesman or ??
Its your interesting remarks that spurn my query

none of the above im afraid although it has been asked before. For me education gave me everything, its has enhanced my life, my wifes and hopefully my children. When i was slogging for a living on the tools i was regarded highly by others as a good tradesman, however there was diminishing satisfaction after a while, i feel true trades people dont get the credit they deserve. However they will not deserve the credit if the education and qualification that underpins it is discredited. We should be proud and stand tall, not feel just like jobbers with experience as this is better than quals1 we should be more than that

i now manage in a large organisation, i support trainees along with other duties which are not all trade related, i dont wish to name my organisation but i am a manager who is a result of education (i left school with very little) i did it all whilst raising a family and i see others benefit from education, it should be considered a privilege to enhance skills not a bind

in my opinion anyway

 

[quality]

point taken