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Discuss System boiler/hot water cylinder spec for large property in the Plumbing Forum area at UKPlumbersForums.co.uk.

  1. Tosanni

    Tosanni New Member

    Hi there,

    My hubby and I are in the middle of a renovation that's turned out to be the equivalent of a new build. We've had to change everything apart from the envelope including all the plumbing and electrics.

    The property is approx 260sq m on 3 floors and has a total of 9 rooms, 2 kitchens, 4 bathrooms (bath and shower) and an open plan living room into one of the kitchens which is in the loft. We've made room for boiler cupboard in the loft and are planning to have a system boiler with a hot water cylinder. There's a total of 22 radiators including 4 heated towel rails in the bathrooms.

    We have however had contradicting information on the size of tank required as well as the boiler size. Our fitter has advised to use a Valiant Boiler (Ecotec 637 and a 300l tank) however I have sought second opinion and was advised to double up on the fitters recommendation (i.e almost go for commercial sizes for both the tank and boiler) for the hot water and heating requirements.

    Long story above I know, but I would appreciate some pointers on how to proceed with this.

    Many thanks
     
  2. joni os

    joni os Plumber

    Hi, and welcome.
    Post is silent regarding mains water supply to building. 4 bathrooms plus 2 kitchens can use a lot of water, but if mains supply is 22mm to DHW cylinder, all outlets will not, simultaneously, give adequate flow. What flows out of tank is restricted to what flows in. Boiler size would permit one shower to be used continuously, reheating water as fast as it is used. The 300 litre cylinder gets depleted only when additional outlets are used.
    Whats your current flow and mains pressure.
     
  3. chris watkins

    chris watkins Plumber

    I would strongly advise you to have a proper set of designs done first.

    Do not rely of a plumbing / heating company unless they can provide proof positive that they have designed as well as installed systems of a similar size & type as yours.

    You really can't upscale heating (& for that matter hot water) systems for a standard type house to one the size of yours.

    Time and again we have been asked to go in to pick up the pieces after these large boilers have been installed incorrectly.

    You are going to be spending a lot of money on the kit alone, please don't waste your money & cause yourselves a lot of heartache for want of a few hundred quid at the beginning.

    Welcome to the forum
     
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    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  4. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Also just going off experience boiler too small cylinder will want 15-25kw that leaves you about 12kw for heating
     
  5. king of pipes

    king of pipes Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    A property that size will need a light commercial boiler have a look at worcester bosch GB 162 50 KW , the heating will need to be zoned up and paired up with a 300 litre unvented cylinder and 300 litre acumulator that way you can use multiple showers baths ect without a drop in pressure the hot water system will need a secondary return back to the cylinder to provide hot water immediately the taps showers ect are turned on good luck with it . Regards k
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  6. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    depends on kw needed but 40-50 sounds about right, but your heating engy should heat loss your property

    depending on your mains flow and pressure you might not need an accumulator

    op where are you based?
     
  7. chris watkins

    chris watkins Plumber

    You might not need to heat the domestic hot water at the same time as the heating either.

    There are so many variables and if buts & maybes that is not even worth trying to second guess the designs of a property of this sizes.
     
  8. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    no but allways allow for it incase they do and call you up saying hot water wont heat up in 30 mins
     
  9. Last Plumber

    Last Plumber Plumber GSR

    I advise you to get a Heating Engineer round to look it over and price it.

    You could even ask if they would spec it for you for your own plumber ( if you have someone in mind ), They will charge you for doing that though so ask how much first.

    If you are going to have to use a light commercial boiler, I would recommend getting a commercial Engineer to fit it for you too.

    This is all opinion of course.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  10. king of pipes

    king of pipes Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Reading your first post you say you have allowed a cupboard for the boiler and ho****er install carefull consideration Will be needed as the plant will be quite large and 600 litres of water weighs alot , I would suggest a purpose built boiler house on the side of the property a better option WHY I hear you ask , 1 the plant will be to big for a cupboard , 2 if anything fails you flood your lovely new home , 2 ease of access for your engineer who will maintain your boiler ect ie he will not have to trapes through your lovely home with all his tools to service your boiler ect so you have your privacy and security , 3 noise transfer through the house you will hear pumps running boiler firing modulating ect all worth considering , if you live in a hard water area you will need a light commercial water softner to to keep bathrooms being damaged from scale all this is worth considering regards k
     
  11. Last Plumber

    Last Plumber Plumber GSR

    I know I have already said this once but You really need an experienced individual here.

    600 litres is a lot to install in a domestic property ( even yours ), A lot of our commercial work e.g. hotels, Nursing homes etc, have less than that, relative to the number of outlets you'll be using.

    With all due respect to them, some installers will 'guess' or way over estimate your requirements. You will end up with an over engineered inefficient Hot water system if you don't get it right !
     
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    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
  12. king of pipes

    king of pipes Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Hi again you would not have 600 litres of hot waterr only 300 the other 300 would be in the accumulator and plumbed into the supply to the cylinder ect acting as a buffer to supply multiple outlets at the same time
     
  13. Tosanni

    Tosanni New Member

    Hi all,

    Thanks so much for the responses, and apologies for the late reply, had a little domestic situation to resolve.
    We will be getting a heating engineer out as suggested in some of the responses. I think it may be best all round to get someone to put their name and a spec to paper before we commit to buying or installing anything.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Tosanni

    Tosanni New Member

    Hi all,

    Thanks so much for the responses, and apologies for the late reply, had a little domestic situation to resolve.
    We will be getting a heating engineer out as suggested in some of the responses. I think it may be best all round to get someone to put their name and a spec to paper before we commit to buying or installing anything.
     
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