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Discuss Settle a bet fot me please in the Gas Safe Register Forum - Public Forum area at UKPlumbersForums.co.uk.

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  1. JasetheMace

    JasetheMace New Member

    My mate says that a domestic gas engineer can work on up to 70kw appliance when there is other appliances as long as there is an isolator before appliance.
    I say that the whole installation from meter to all appliances must be 70kw maximum.
    Trying to look in books for answers, I have bpec and logic books but can't find it!
    Can somebody point me in correct direction please as would really like to prove either way.
    Also I know that the 70kw boiler would be too high an installation volume and pipe size but he believes that as long as it is from isolator then all of this doesn't matter!
     
  2. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Servicing yes

    Install no

    As for being over the limit m3/h wise your fine aslong as your under a u16 and 10m of pipe
     
  3. JasetheMace

    JasetheMace New Member

    Confused!
    How can you service but not install?
    In my book I remember something that had scope of installer- this is what I am looking for!
     
  4. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    There an iso valve below / on the boiler so no other appliances come into effect

    Also not required to do a tt on a service

    Manufacturer service guys can work on commercial lines eg repair domestic boilers on let’s say a u25 due to this reason
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. JasetheMace

    JasetheMace New Member

    Ok, so where does it state scope of work?
    Igem/ups/1b?? This doesnt really state what defines domestic and commercial
    gas books- can't find it but sure it is in there!
    I am sure when I learnt there was a little diagram somewhere that stated the difference between domestic and commercial but can't find it!
     
  6. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    It’s in 1b
     
  7. CBW1982

    CBW1982 GSR Top Contributor!!

    I think if I’m not mistaken, it’s also about pipework installation volumes which can make it so you need commercial gas, not just KW ratings.

    As above it’s in IGEM standards. Ige/up/1-b
     
  8. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Not for servicing

    Unless the appliance your working on is listed as commercial
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  9. JasetheMace

    JasetheMace New Member

    I found this but doesn't really prove that he is wrong- except that the installation volume must not exceed 0.35m3 but for an example- if meter is 1 meter from appliances- he believes we could install 3 x 65kw appliances provided there was an isolator before each appliance!

    Screenshot_20190310-140108_Chrome.jpg
     
  10. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    you could service 3 x 65kw boilers but not install as install takes the combined kw
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. Mastermixlee

    Mastermixlee GSR

    Interesting topic with this as always ends up with different interpretations of the classifications and regs.

    Ive always been told that provided the volume of pipework, meter size u16 or smaller etc is under the limit that you can work on the boiler up to 70kw but only if they are on a seperate system (e.g. 2 Boilers of 45kw but completely seperate circuits for both. So one for upstairs and one for downstairs)

    If both are heating same circuit of hw then I've always been advised that it's then classified as exceeding domestic capabilities as there may be extra system design requirements due to heat input into the system.

    Personally I'd call gas safe if I found myself in that position for clarification. Would be great if the regs specifically stated it clearly though.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Last Plumber

    Last Plumber Trusted Plumber GSR

    This is just one of a myriad of rules which cover any installation. The 70 Kw Max should be taken as a part of the whole picture and not just looked upon as an individual overriding permission to do something. Most situations in our job require this approach in my opinion.

    Here is a good example and food for thought. A Boiler Manufacturer makes a 65 kw Boiler which they class as a Non-Domestic Light Commercial appliance.

    Would that meant that a domestic installer could install it, service or repair it because it is less than 70 Kw? I would say no.

    A domestic Gas installer more than likely will have no relevant qualifications to work on or install non-domestic Gas fired hot water boilers and manufacturers classification of their own appliance would to my mind outweigh the rules on the 70Kw Maximum mentioned in various BS documents.

    I can see how a domestic installer might disagree with me due to the 70Kw maximum but how would they stand legally if something went wrong? I wouldn't want to take the risk in this day and age, opinions will vary.

    As far as this idea is concerned, a 16 M/3/hr Meter, would be too small and that would rule him out from the start.
    He can - with domestic qualifications - work on an installation as per the description you posted earlier.
    The 0.035 meter cubed installation volume includes the Meter itself. The Meter has a volume of 0.025 of a cubic meter if it is a U16, which does not leave a lot for pipework.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
  13. Msjc

    Msjc GSR

    In my book I found this IMG_20190310_164133.jpg
    From this I understand that you can service on appliances that have a maximum individual heat input of 70kw.

    You wont be able to install three 65kw boilers no matter how close they are to the meter because their combined needed m³/h is at 20 meaning the gas meter will be larger than the allowed.

    For even two 70kw boilers you have no chance as using 1m of 35mm pipe would put you at 0.923 mbar loss and that's without the runs to the boilers just where it would Tee to go to them.
     
  14. JasetheMace

    JasetheMace New Member

    Which book is that? Which section?
     
  15. JasetheMace

    JasetheMace New Member

    Probably not the best example, perhaps a 35kw boiler, 20kw cooker and 20kw water heater would of been better example with meter sat in middle of all 3! (Obviously never really like that!). But it is over 70kw combined but under installation volume and 35mm Pipe.
     
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