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Secret

Over a year ago a good local plumber installed for me (the householder) a new Grant Vortex Eco Utility 26 35 boiler, but ended the job (for which I paid his firm in full) and left the area without first pricing/fitting the secondary return that I had requested. A different - OFTEC-registered - firm's plumber then installed the secondary return. It seemed to work well in bringing hot water to a distant sink tap far more quickly than before. However, some weeks later I noticed that water from the boiler was cooling quite rapidly. Water that had before remained hot for well over 24 hours now became cool after 8 hours. (The secondary return crosses a large loft area - 40 feet there and 40 feet back.)

I am writing to ask advice about the suitability of the installed pipework and of its insulation. The outgoing copper pipe is 22mm, with Armacell 13mm insulation. The return pipe is 15mm, with Climaflex 9mm insulation.

Three questions:
(1) Is it satisfactory/normal for two different gauges of pipe to be used - one outward, one return? If not, why not?
(2) Is the insulation sufficient? From what I've been reading on the internet, the more insulation the better to minimise water heat loss. Isover Climpipe offers 15mm x 25mm as does Climaflex, and Armacell Tubolit offers 15mm x 19mm. So why was a thicker insulation not provided for both the 15mm return, and for the 22mm pipe?
(3) The lengths of 15mm x 9mm Climaflex should, according to the manufacturer, be glued end-to-end so that heat cannot escape. This has not been done - no glue. So there is a ragged gap of a few millimeters between each section. Is not gluing common practice?

Thanks.
 
Hi there secret and welcome along, me personnaly i wouldve had the thicker insulation with all joints taped up ,,,, all joints must be covered to stop heat loss,,,, also is the secondary pump on settings or constant ,
 
Yep as kris said. But thicker insulation is better. Use tape or glue on

Is your pump on 24/7? Fit a PIR so that when u enter the far room with said sink the pump kicks in.... Thus wasting less water .

Also restrict the flow around this by closing the pump valve, you only need a small circulating flow to keep it hot.
 
Thanks for your quick reply. The secondary pump is on constantly. It is a Grundfos UP15-14B. This has as far as I know no inbuilt timer - the 'AutoAdapt' version (suffix A) was first marketed a bit later I think. I can easily switch the pump off, though, late evening, and on again early morning.

Do you have a response to Question 1 - the different gauges of piping for outward and return?

Thanks again.
 
Thanks for your quick reply. See my reply to Kris re the 24/7 etc. And I'll look into fitting a PIR - interesting. I hadn't thought/heard of this.
 
Thanks for your quick reply. See my reply to Kris re the 24/7 etc. And I'll look into fitting a PIR - interesting. I hadn't thought/heard of this.

Or a timer 5 mins every hour etc
 
That's normal. Outward is to provide sufficient flow to outlets the 15mm is to provide just a route back to cylinder- I use 10mm!
 
Many thanks for taking the trouble to reply again. Thanks for the clarification.
 
10mm copper for the return. Loads of insulation. Tape everything and get some form of control. I like the pir. Otherwise you will burn through your oil for no reason.
 
Thanks for the reply. There seems to be a consensus that a timer control of some kind (pir or other) is required. I'm on to it.
 
Thanks for your quick reply. See my reply to Kris re the 24/7 etc. And I'll look into fitting a PIR - interesting. I hadn't thought/heard of this.

You don't need a timeclock or pir. The pump will, given time, build a usage database and react accordingly.
 
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